Century's "mint" P38's update

[EOC Bob]

According to Dennis Kroh of Empire Arms, these are indeed Russian Capture dipped reworks. Century is asking $599 each. They are matching in "excellent" condition, and have been import stamped. If Century stamped them as hard as they did the recent batch of Lugers, I think many of us will pass on these. But Dennis labeled those that downgrade Russian captures as "snobs", and that they may in fact be more "historical" than some bringbacks.

[Kyrie]

Sigh... $300 pistols being offered at $600.


Best regards,


Kyrie

[Frank]

While I may agree regards the historical significance of the Russian imports, the price is outrageous. I can buy a 95% mayching original for less money than those Russian do-overs.

Might consider a little perspective...........If the Japanese could purchase and own these pistols.......I doubt that any of us could afford any Luger, or P.38; for that matter. They really like the German stuff, and American "fly-boy" stuff, such as those "bomber-art" flying jackets. Remember: the better "toy guns" of the german design came out of Japan. Yankee-Doodle-Land is just about the only place left in the world where this stuff can be dumped.

If I recall correctly (and I may not), Dennis himself was selling excellent condition Russian reblued P-38's about 9 months ago for about $450. I declined then because of the price, notwithstanding the fact that Dennis advertised them as the best he had ever seen (which means they were probably pretty outstanding) and the fact that you could choose between Mauser or Walther and brown or black grips. I have nothing against Century and will continue to buy guns from them, but for $99 less I was able to get six months ago a Black Widow Luger in excellent condition with matching numbers from AIM. I guess what I am saying in a roundabout way is that I agree that the price is too high for these P-38's.


I also agree that if these pistols were refurbished by the Russians with the intent of possibly using them in their arsenal, they are of valid historical interest and should not be looked down upon. It is a different story if they simply were reblued with the intent of unloading them in the US marketplace.

[Marvin]

I Agree with Mike that these P.38s should not be looked down upon because of their historical interest, But I also feel that Century is asking too much for these pistols at this time. If anyone does buy one, they will have to wait a few years before being able to break-even ontheir purchase.


Back to the historical fact of these pistols, they couold probably tell much better stories than the one from the Western Front.


Marvin

[EOC Bob]

if these had been stamped by Century as aggressively as the capture Lugers had, his response was that Century will not repeat that mistake again, and that they hadn't. Also asked him if he would be selling any, his response was "nope". As for me, my "gun of the month" is a matching turned down bolt Swedish M38 in 6.5X55 from SAMCO. BTW AIM passed on these P-38's also. But let me add, I would love to have one, just not at $600.

[Mark]

Gruss Gott,Kinder!

As this is the Luger Forum,I have been

reluctant to insert too many things which don't purtain directly to the subject at hand,but since the "door has been opened for me",so to speak,I would

appreciate it if one or all of you fine

gents could find it in your heart to

clarify something that has been bothering me since the day I bought a

particular P-38.

The first thing is,it was made by

MANUFACTURE DE MACHINES DU HAUT-RHIN

( MANURHIN).I don't find reference to them ever making P-38s in the Lit. I've

read( just PP's and PPK's under license

from Walther ).It says "Made in France"

and designatates the gun as Pistolet P1.

Much the way some post-war Walthers are.

On the lower rear of the slide near

the serrations is a stamp with two crossed cannons forming an X.Above is a

3 and below it 34.Slightly higher and

forward on the slide is a "Swastika

Eagle"(Hakenkreuzadler) stamp.

Can someone please tell me what I'm

looking at here.All these different

markings on a P-38 just don't seem to fit together in any coherent fashion.

Everybody's been so helpful regarding

my 1936 S42 (of course,that's a Luger!),

that I felt compelled to come begging for information concerning this bag of

tricks.Thanks for any and all info. you

can send my way!


Tschuss! Mark

[Wombat]

Like All guns that hit the market, the price will probably drop in about 2-6 months....


Look at the Makarovs, and other various guns CAI and other dealers sell via Mail Order. All drop in price quickly....


I am in the market for a P-38, just as described. Hopefully CAI will sell to AIM and some other retailers soon enough, and at a good price.


I also just got the CAI Catalog in the mail yesterday, and they had some good stuff in it. The TZ-99 (sig p226 clone) is an excellent buy in it! Comes with 2 15-rnd mags. I have one of these, and it outshoots most of my guns. Very accurate, and a good deal! $270 is the price.


Now, we just need CAI to find that Russian warehouse-stash of "snail-drum" magazines!


---Wombat

Hi,

Although I do not have a Manhurin P1, over on the c&r ffl discussion list, these were recently discussed. The consensus is the parts were made at Walther, shipped to France for assembly and proofing, then sold to the Berlin police. The Eagle/Swastika was added by the US importer who list members thought might be John Jovino, a New York importer who is well known for the Australian Enfield rifles he imported many years ago. Although the manufacturing sequence and location is not entirely certain, the discussion list participants seemed fairly sure the eagle stamps were very recent fake additions.


I hope that is of some help.

dm

[John Sabato]

After the war using as many surplus parts as possible. I have heard varying stories about the quality of such pieces from excellent commercial quality to "just thrown together" and I have never examined one except through a glass case at a gunshow. Since my interests are primarily WW2 and previous, they really didn't interest me. In the late 60's and early '70s Interarms imported P1's made in Germany (Neu Ulm)that had an aluminum frame. They were one of the lightest 9mm handguns I had ever held. I had a friend in '66 that had one of those including a .22cal conversion kit. The 9mm shot pretty well for a double action trigger, but the .22 cal conversion was like lightning in that it never seemed to strike twice in the same place.


The swastika stamp may have been a leftover from war produced and proofed parts, or may have been falsified by an importer to improve the sales potential as some have speculated.


-John

[Marvin]

Mark,


mac is correct that the importer added the Eagle/Swatika to the post war P.38s. This has been proven by a member of NAPCA who has talked with the folks that did the stamps. The stamps were put on the post war pistols as a joke! In the years since they were stamped, the pistols have now caused everyone to wonder if they have a real "Prize" and/or rare pistol. They were originally sold as a joke and priced as a shooter. This is what happens years after a mark has been put on a pistol and they come to light again.


Marvin

[Mark]

Gruss Gott all!

I knew this damned thing didn't make any sense,

but I had to see if anybody knew where it came from!

I bought a few P-38's (post-war Walther made ,just

because I liked the pistol). This Manurhin was a

whim,but I had to get some input as to why and how

a post-war pistol would have those markings.I still have the question as to when this pistol was made

and if it was by authorization of the Waffenfabrik?

I haven't seen anything that supports that it was

done with Walthers "approval".Forgive my transgressions,please!Thanks for all the info. on

this - whatever? However, it does shoot reasonably

well.


Tschuss! Mark