Another 1906 Frenchy Is Up For Auction

[cirelaw]

http://www.rockislandauction.com/vie...id/52/lid/1769 This one has no mention of an inventory tag! I must thank a dear friend from upstate New York for taking His time to teach me my first attachment!!!!

[cirelaw]

Another 1906 French with tag inventory number! http://historical.ha.com/c/item.zx?s...No=32620#Photo,

[sheepherder]

http://www.rockislandauction.com/vie...id/52/lid/1769

May 20-21-22 "Lot Sold"...Did you win it???

[cirelaw]

I already own one but there is a running dispute over inventory markings on the toe which this one has and the other as mine have no inventory marking. Inventory numbers I assume were not required as is a serial number under French law. Bob Simpson wrote me about the French contract luger being offered on his site. Like mine it has no such toe markings and the serial number fall within the accepted range. A position taken by some is that all unmarked French lugers are fake or forgeries!!. I believe that during the years of production there were many orders by several vendors, some orders were marked others not! I believe this absence of an optional non required proof alone is not in an of itself determinative validity. I can't belive there are so many forgeries! Apart fron that nuance they all appear alike as offered above! Its still opens debate! Finally I can't see the some Frenchman would take time to duplicate when originals were probobly cheeper and much easier to purchase from a vendor. It was my first luger and the most facinating forgery???~~~Eric

[Dwight Gruber]

The concept of an "accepted range" for these pistols is pretty meaningless. There are 24 of these pistols reported in the commercial database, in the 21,641 pistols between sn 36773 and sn 58414. Of these:

8 have a reported toe number
11 lack a toe number report
3 are reported as having no toe number
2 are reported as fake
2 have serial numbers reported in the Hans Tauscher "spy luger" list and cannot be authentic

The toe numbers are inventory numbers applied by Manufacture Francais des Armes et Cycles, not by DWM. The only documented characteristic of authenticity for these pistols is the inventory toe number along with the barrel inscription.

This means that at least one-third of the pistols in this record are fake!

--Dwight

[cirelaw]

Thank You Dwight. How do you define 'fake'? Who produced these otherwise discernable counterfeits and not just one one but according to you several over a period of time! Each forger having to produce a perfect copy in every other respect, 41 individual machined pieces, some proofed while omitting a simple obvious to all and readily observable 4 digit toe number? Dwight with all due respect, it doesn't make sence! They could reproduce the proofs below exactly but the toe that could have been added so there wouldn't be questioned according to that school of thought! Isn't the luger below the work of D.W.M. and not a someone, some where, some how creating exact 'replicas' decidedly without a single toe tag over a period of years avoiding criminal or civil repercussions to its maker!! There must be better ways to spot a fake, I would think!

[Dwight Gruber]

Eric,

In this case, "fake" is the fraudulent reproduction of the "Manufacture Francais des Armes et Cycles" barrel inscription added to a standard New Model Parabellum, to increase the pistol's value for personal gain. Up until recently, the toe number has not been commonly known as a necessary characteristic of an authentic pistol; collectors have simply accepted the barrel inscription without the knowledge that a pistol must be investigated further.

Now that thte information is "out there," look for bad actors to start adding the the toe numbers to their Luger forgeries, completely muddying the waters.

--Dwight

[cirelaw]

Dwight, You are so right! Another can of worms!!! Tks for all your work and honest devotion~~~~~Keeping them honest!!!!