Renato Gamba Luger

Zorba · 10-07-2013, 06:33 PM

Comments? Looks like a pretty nice pistol to me. No affiliation, etc.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=369718073

SteveM · 10-07-2013, 06:49 PM

Postwar Mauser manufacture for an Italian distributor. They are 7.65mm Luger. I need one of those but I ain't givin' what he's wantin'. His BIN used to be about 4K.

Zorba · 10-07-2013, 07:50 PM

Wait long enough, and it'll probably go down to 1.5K.

lugerholsterrepair · 10-07-2013, 09:08 PM

Looks like a pretty nice pistol to me. I am reminded looking at it of fake Pakistani Luger holsters. It is an eyesore. I can't tell 100% but it looks like they were too cheap to put on the lanyard staple.
The sideplate is a weird purple. There is strange maker marks on the front grip strap and bad looking markings elsewhere..and what did they try to polish off the Chamber area? A Polish Eagle with RG?
This pistol looks like an Airsoft BB gun.
For that kind of $$ you could sure end up with a REAL Luger.

Sergio Natali · 10-08-2013, 03:54 AM

Jerry

This is one of the (few I suppose) pistols that Mauser made for the Renato Gamba Company of Gardone Valtrompia.

I've seen a couple of them, they are like the "Anniversary" ones made by Mauser in the period 1972 1979 to celebrate Mauser " Russian contract ", although this one is a standard p.08, others were probably made with the old W+F machine tools, in fact these pistols have many things in common with W+F 1906/29
To me beautiful guns but without a soul ... (no history)

ithacaartist · 10-08-2013, 11:23 AM

And here I was, suspecting it was a former Police pistol! No..wait...that'd be Zenyatta Mondatta.

lugerholsterrepair · 10-08-2013, 12:05 PM

Sergio, Yes..I should not be harsh. I know people have an interest in these pistols and many like them.

Vlim · 10-08-2013, 01:07 PM

The 'Renato Gamba' series of Mauser Parabellum pistols is actually quite a rare beast and not a lot were made at all.

Produced in 1974, with a number of RG-marked pistols being shipped to Interarms in 1976.
No more than 1000 RG-pistols were planned and produced.

The RG-logo on the chamber was added using an etching process, it looks like this one got a less than succesful etching treatment.

Shown here is one of the original etching transfers in my collection.

These pistols were certainly real, engineered by the companies that produced and developed the originals (this includes DWM's successor IWK who produced most of the toggle parts). No Swiss machines or tools were used during production, but Swiss quality control gauges were used during the manufacturing process and the post war Design was based on Swiss drawings.

If you want to know more about the post war development, I suggest picking up a copy of our book 'The Parabellum Is Back! 1945-2000' in which the complete story of the Postwar Parabellum is told.

Vlim · 06-13-2020, 10:18 AM

Old thread, but I recently was able to find one of the Renato Gamba contract lugers in Germany.

Of the little over 1000 planned, only about 150 to 200 were delivered to Renato Gamba before they ran out of cash.

The rest of the pistols were partially dismantled and sold for parts. Others had their Renato Gamba markings removed, Interarms markings and American Eagle added and were sold to Interarms. These still have the RG serial number.

A special feature of the 1974 Renato Gamba P.08 was the 4 inch barrel in .30 luger. This barrel type was never used on the Mauser Parabellum before the Renato Gamba contract of 1974 and was supposed to add to collector appeal. 9x19 being a prohibited cartridge in Italy, a .30 luger 'P08' barrel would be welcomed as an alternative.

The draft notes, contract details and RG logo design drawings survived and we will plan an article on this not so regular Mauser pistol soon.

Vlim · 06-13-2020, 02:42 PM

Some more shots:

tomaustin · 06-13-2020, 09:02 PM

you say you found one....is that the same as I bought one?

how are they valued in the secondary market?

thanks, tom

Vlim · 06-14-2020, 11:09 AM

Hi Tom, yes, I bought it.
Prices in the EU range from 1200 to 2000.
Higher in the US, but I think around 1500 to 1700 is reasonable. Everything below is a very good deal.

Pricing also depends on the extras. Some were shipped in a nice luxury case. That ups the price with a couple hundred.

Vlim · 06-23-2020, 04:30 PM

Documents.

tomaustin · 06-23-2020, 07:12 PM

I am impressed with your collecting ability....you may be closer to the motherload than us in the USA......Tom

Joe in Colorado · 06-23-2020, 08:43 PM

Thank you all for this info!
By chance RG0311 is for sale on GB now, just an FYI, bid is $1200 now.
I don't need it-I have RG0899 which is a AE/Interarms rework, still with green hang tag.
I do have a question about these please: Do we know what regular production SNs were defaced in renumbering the RG series?
Now on GB: RG0311:
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/868017296

HerrKaiser · 06-23-2020, 09:45 PM

The chamber crest on the GB gun seems a little faint or shallow in those pictures. Then again, it could just be the relatively poor overall picture quality.

Vlim · 06-24-2020, 09:18 AM

It seems the chamber crests came out better on one than the other. Etching was a manual process and some were shallower than others.

As far as I'm aware there are no decent records on re-used (or obliterated) serial numbers.

Joe in Colorado · 06-25-2020, 11:08 AM

I did ask the seller on GB twice for better photos no reply so far.

Regarding serial numbers that may have been reworked, offhand it seems like regular Interarms 9mm pistol serial numbers peter out around 144xx, most with FBM proofs but some having Euro proofs dated 73. The next I recall is 152xx with HK (79) date code.

(Anyone with a green hang tag to spare?)

HerrKaiser · 06-25-2020, 11:18 AM

Joe,

Would have to think that the person to ask about precise post-war Mauser serial numbering would be Mauro Baudino here on the forum.

Vlim · 06-25-2020, 12:22 PM

The RG lugers were made in 1974 and 1975, so there were enough normal and Interarms pistols and parts around to work with. Factory documents show that parts inventories were done on several occassions to see what could be used and re-used for contract work. But there are no actual lists of recycled serial numbers that have shown up yet.

@HerrKaiser, you are aware that Mauro and I wrote the book on the post war Parabellum together, right?

10-07-2013, 06:33 PM	#1
Zorba User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Merritt Island, Fl Posts: 952 Thanks: 777 Thanked 527 Times in 290 Posts	Renato Gamba Luger Comments? Looks like a pretty nice pistol to me. No affiliation, etc. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=369718073

10-07-2013, 09:08 PM	#4
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Looks like a pretty nice pistol to me. I am reminded looking at it of fake Pakistani Luger holsters. It is an eyesore. I can't tell 100% but it looks like they were too cheap to put on the lanyard staple. The sideplate is a weird purple. There is strange maker marks on the front grip strap and bad looking markings elsewhere..and what did they try to polish off the Chamber area? A Polish Eagle with RG? This pistol looks like an Airsoft BB gun. For that kind of $$ you could sure end up with a REAL Luger. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

10-08-2013, 03:54 AM	#5
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	Jerry This is one of the (few I suppose) pistols that Mauser made for the Renato Gamba Company of Gardone Valtrompia. I've seen a couple of them, they are like the "Anniversary" ones made by Mauser in the period 1972 1979 to celebrate Mauser " Russian contract ", although this one is a standard p.08, others were probably made with the old W+F machine tools, in fact these pistols have many things in common with W+F 1906/29 To me beautiful guns but without a soul ... (no history) __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list. Last edited by Sergio Natali; 10-08-2013 at 03:57 AM. Reason: spelling

10-08-2013, 11:23 AM	#6
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,347 Thanks: 7,285 Thanked 2,579 Times in 1,366 Posts	And here I was, suspecting it was a former Police pistol! No..wait...that'd be Zenyatta Mondatta. __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

10-08-2013, 12:05 PM	#7
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Sergio, Yes..I should not be harsh. I know people have an interest in these pistols and many like them. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

10-07-2013, 06:49 PM	#2
SteveM User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,016 Thanks: 94 Thanked 275 Times in 137 Posts	Postwar Mauser manufacture for an Italian distributor. They are 7.65mm Luger. I need one of those but I ain't givin' what he's wantin'. His BIN used to be about 4K.

10-07-2013, 07:50 PM	#3
Zorba User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Merritt Island, Fl Posts: 952 Thanks: 777 Thanked 527 Times in 290 Posts	Wait long enough, and it'll probably go down to 1.5K.

10-08-2013, 01:07 PM	#8
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,989 Times in 1,205 Posts	The 'Renato Gamba' series of Mauser Parabellum pistols is actually quite a rare beast and not a lot were made at all. Produced in 1974, with a number of RG-marked pistols being shipped to Interarms in 1976. No more than 1000 RG-pistols were planned and produced. The RG-logo on the chamber was added using an etching process, it looks like this one got a less than succesful etching treatment. Shown here is one of the original etching transfers in my collection. These pistols were certainly real, engineered by the companies that produced and developed the originals (this includes DWM's successor IWK who produced most of the toggle parts). No Swiss machines or tools were used during production, but Swiss quality control gauges were used during the manufacturing process and the post war Design was based on Swiss drawings. If you want to know more about the post war development, I suggest picking up a copy of our book 'The Parabellum Is Back! 1945-2000' in which the complete story of the Postwar Parabellum is told. Attached Images

06-13-2020, 10:18 AM	#9
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,989 Times in 1,205 Posts	Old thread, but I recently was able to find one of the Renato Gamba contract lugers in Germany. Of the little over 1000 planned, only about 150 to 200 were delivered to Renato Gamba before they ran out of cash. The rest of the pistols were partially dismantled and sold for parts. Others had their Renato Gamba markings removed, Interarms markings and American Eagle added and were sold to Interarms. These still have the RG serial number. A special feature of the 1974 Renato Gamba P.08 was the 4 inch barrel in .30 luger. This barrel type was never used on the Mauser Parabellum before the Renato Gamba contract of 1974 and was supposed to add to collector appeal. 9x19 being a prohibited cartridge in Italy, a .30 luger 'P08' barrel would be welcomed as an alternative. The draft notes, contract details and RG logo design drawings survived and we will plan an article on this not so regular Mauser pistol soon. Attached Thumbnails

06-13-2020, 02:42 PM	#10
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,989 Times in 1,205 Posts	Some more shots: Attached Thumbnails

06-13-2020, 09:02 PM	#11
tomaustin Lifer X5 Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: texas Posts: 708 Thanks: 87 Thanked 522 Times in 201 Posts	you say you found one....is that the same as I bought one? how are they valued in the secondary market? thanks, tom

06-14-2020, 11:09 AM	#12
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,989 Times in 1,205 Posts	Hi Tom, yes, I bought it. Prices in the EU range from 1200 to 2000. Higher in the US, but I think around 1500 to 1700 is reasonable. Everything below is a very good deal. Pricing also depends on the extras. Some were shipped in a nice luxury case. That ups the price with a couple hundred.

06-23-2020, 04:30 PM	#13
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,989 Times in 1,205 Posts	Documents. Attached Thumbnails

06-23-2020, 07:12 PM	#14
tomaustin Lifer X5 Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: texas Posts: 708 Thanks: 87 Thanked 522 Times in 201 Posts	I am impressed with your collecting ability....you may be closer to the motherload than us in the USA......Tom

06-23-2020, 08:43 PM	#15
Joe in Colorado User Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 71 Thanks: 103 Thanked 136 Times in 38 Posts	Thank you all for this info! By chance RG0311 is for sale on GB now, just an FYI, bid is $1200 now. I don't need it-I have RG0899 which is a AE/Interarms rework, still with green hang tag. I do have a question about these please: Do we know what regular production SNs were defaced in renumbering the RG series? Now on GB: RG0311: https://www.gunbroker.com/item/868017296 Attached Thumbnails

06-23-2020, 09:45 PM	#16
HerrKaiser User Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: South Carolina Posts: 848 Thanks: 784 Thanked 861 Times in 411 Posts	The chamber crest on the GB gun seems a little faint or shallow in those pictures. Then again, it could just be the relatively poor overall picture quality. __________________ -QM Looking for Mauser S/42 toggle train #22

06-24-2020, 09:18 AM	#17
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,989 Times in 1,205 Posts	It seems the chamber crests came out better on one than the other. Etching was a manual process and some were shallower than others. As far as I'm aware there are no decent records on re-used (or obliterated) serial numbers.

06-25-2020, 11:08 AM	#18
Joe in Colorado User Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 71 Thanks: 103 Thanked 136 Times in 38 Posts	I did ask the seller on GB twice for better photos no reply so far. Regarding serial numbers that may have been reworked, offhand it seems like regular Interarms 9mm pistol serial numbers peter out around 144xx, most with FBM proofs but some having Euro proofs dated 73. The next I recall is 152xx with HK (79) date code. (Anyone with a green hang tag to spare?) Attached Thumbnails

06-25-2020, 11:18 AM	#19
HerrKaiser User Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: South Carolina Posts: 848 Thanks: 784 Thanked 861 Times in 411 Posts	Joe, Would have to think that the person to ask about precise post-war Mauser serial numbering would be Mauro Baudino here on the forum. __________________ -QM Looking for Mauser S/42 toggle train #22

06-25-2020, 12:22 PM	#20
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,989 Times in 1,205 Posts	The RG lugers were made in 1974 and 1975, so there were enough normal and Interarms pistols and parts around to work with. Factory documents show that parts inventories were done on several occassions to see what could be used and re-used for contract work. But there are no actual lists of recycled serial numbers that have shown up yet. @HerrKaiser, you are aware that Mauro and I wrote the book on the post war Parabellum together, right?