Finding a P-08 Today

[johnii]

I remember there was a time when a P-08 was sold as almost junk in the 1960s and then the prices just kept going up with "matching parts" four times above the times they could be had in the 1960's. Now it seems to find a true P-08 has become a hurdle and after that hurdle all the details about parts and date come in to make them all over the board to thousands and thousands of dollars.

I have been looking online since 2000 at for sale P-08s from all sorts of places and dates and now I see they all are still rising in cost.

It is hard to find a P-08 without spending a lot of money.

There have been reproductions of the P-08 from Huston, TX and other places but they always fall way short of the original P-08s made in Germany.

Am I correct so far?

The question I have is why what was once a surplus cheap item after WWII is now a very expensive buy today and yesterday (yesteryear)?

Can a gun company duplicate the machinery and make a P-08 today with the same tolerances?

I am wondering and if so can that gun company profit by doing so?

[Edward Tinker]

no, yes, no, yes

It is much more complicated than being said above.

In the 1970's Mausers they did remake the luger, it was not a huge success - at the time, too much and probably too many originals out there. Many folks have improved them by make new models, new calibers, etc.

The new made ones aren't interchangable in parts

They were always more expensive than many other guns years ago, so it depends on what you consider cheap? A $35 luger is cheap, cheap / today - but how much was a person making that a week back then?

Mosin Nagants are cheap today and were cheaper five years ago - the import market will dry up with them and their price will rise....

[MikeP]

When Luger were $25 for rig, I was making a buck an hour.
True that an "unmessed with" example is a lot harder to find and you need to look very hard at what you do find.

[mrerick]

People have looked at manufacturing new Lugers to the original specifications and quality. The price would be way over $5000.

Mauser tried to do it in the 1970s through 1980s and couldn't make sales at a price that would give a decent profit. That's why they stopped.

Other than the ones that Mauser and Krieghoff have made, I don't think there have been any mass manufacture of modern Lugers of good lasting quality.

So... we have what were made in the past, and the products of Waffenfabrik Minnesota, etc...(the fakers). They are expensive because of the demand for a limited number of Lugers that are extant. Every collectable Luger that gets damaged reduces the available number, and increases rarity.

When you wait for a bus on the corner, you can wave it by because it costs too much (value less than the utility of the trip). Eventually, you either get on the bus, or get cold standing on the corner.

Marc

[johnii]

I was born in 1957 and remember the 1960's and even 1958 and 1959. I was never interested in P-08s although I remember the squirt guns patterned after them filled with water to spray somebody back in 1962. The P-08 was an available squirt gun in 1962 and that was when I first saw a "model" of a P-08 in first grade.

In the 60's there was a killer named the Zodiac in the Bay Area and I lived in the Bay Area (Kentfield, CA) when this was happening. He used the P-08 in a town just off Interstate 80 from Black Point to Reno. Then the P-08 was identified as the weapon used by the Zodiac. The P-08 by this time appeared in a lot of WWII movies and also with Frank Sinatra (and others) in the First Deadly Sin and the Manchurian Candidate. I remember these movies as a youngster. Then the P-08 is all over the movies about the Third Reich and WWII. I still had no fascination for the P-08. Until I finally shot one after shooting Hi Powers and CZ 75s and Beretta M-9s. My first two P-08s were DWM commercials and then I got a real P-08 from WWII (the 1937 S/42 Mauser) recovered from a WWII veteran who used it to buy a new roof over his house with a roofer and the roofer walked into my door with it after roofing our house and he wanted to know if I'd buy it and I took it apart seeing all matching except for the magazine and bought it from him for $900. I told him ahead of time he might get more looking elsewhere to sell it but he decided to sell it to me. That is the Story of the 1937 I've pictured here, Serial number 4068 suffix "b". Not reblued all original and it shoots a foot high at 50 yards but other than that it is deadly accurate when you aim low!

Then I got the 1936 reblued all original without the Mauser Bump but all matching in steel except for the grips. Matching magazine included.

The DWM's I had had mismatched parts and neither one of them shot 100% reliability. These do.

I think matching parts make the difference. Whether reblued or not.

To date I find a working P-08 hard to find without paying for it. To date I know there are reproductions that cost too much to make to be a real success.

I am here to continue the journey to find WWII Military S/42s of other dates with all matching parts. I am not going to do DWM or Erfurt or Swiss or Navy or other. I am concentrating on true WWII Third Reich Soldier P-08s. That is my interest.

I suppose that is also my endorsement for anyone finding an S/42 Military Third Reich P-08. I know there are rarities in the Swiss Luger and the Navy and other things but to me I like the S/42 over the rest and I can buy more of them than one rare Navy or Swiss Luger. Does this make sense?

[Edward Tinker]

Originally Posted by johnii

.... Does this make sense?

sure if thats what you like

I remember seeing the ads for lugers from the early 60's and earlier for $65 or so - and I am only 3 yrs younger

[Arizona Slim]

I was speaking with a fellow Luger enthusiast from Florida the other day, a gentleman in his early 80's that I had just made a purchase from on ebay, he told me that his first Luger was an Artillery that he paid a whopping $17.00 for, I didn't get the year he made the purchase but I think it was in the early or middle 50's, anyway it made think I may have overpaid for the 1917 Artillery I bought at auction in early 1964 for the princely sum of $56.00, just kidding. My monthly salary at that time was $350.00.

Lon

[mrerick]

So... you're in the right place to find a Luger offered directly by a collector for sale.

Just keep your eye on the for sale area, and be patient.

Marc

[Lyn Islaub]

All collectable firearms are getting more expensive than they used to be and we all make more money that we did 40 years ago. I bought a 1942 Remington-Rand 1911 rig a few weeks ago that came with the original NRA paperwork from 1960. Pistol, holster, belt and double magazine pouch was $17.00 back then. Those were the days. Needless to say, the rig was a bit more expensive now.

[cirelaw]

We owe it all to 3 names..Fred Datig in 1958, Harry Jones in 1959 and Charles Kenyan in 1969 All are even more relevant today! Lugers at Random had the most impact! I think it opened everyones' eyes! I believe Kenyans' book which had been reprinted multible times was responsible of causing the rise of luger prices, providing relevance and attention to luger collecting in over 400 pages! People then pulled out their old dusty luger relics and found out what the had for the first time. There are probobly Several still hiding!

[johnii]

It all goes to the value of a P-08 with all matching parts. Were ever it comes from. Mismatches are subject to devaluation and matched numbers mean the real thing. You can get a mismatch P-08 that shoots for a shooter and be happy with it. After all, the tolerances to produce a P-08 are beyond what is manufactured today with CNC or MIM.

Ergo the CNC and MIM mean nothing to us. Right?

When you get a P-08 with all matching it is a sort of heaven of discovery. I get that. That is the realm I am in and no MIM or CNC will ever match it.

I'd rather have mismatch parts from a working P-08 than a recent MIM or CNC reproduction. That's why no recent (after WWII) reproduction is worthless to me.

Rebluing? I don't care. All matching parts? I care.

Fact is no commercial company after WWII is even close to a mismatched part WWII P-08. I won't buy a mismatched WWII P-08 in the first place and I'll never buy a reproduction made with MIM and CNC.

I want matched parts from WWII and I have them in my two P-08s. Reblued or not.

The Third Reich had standards that no one today can ever reproduce. They did not have MIM or CNC then. They stamped every single part.

The S/42 to me is the true issued mass P-08 for soldiers of the Third Reich. The Navy and Swiss are another realm to admire and spend lots of money for.

I'd rather have an issued S/42 than the rest. I am opinionated. I like S/42 Military. I can perhaps look into Swiss and Navy later on but in the meantime I am picking up S/42 issued to the Third Reich. Erfurts? I don't care at this time. I want working functioning P-08s from the Third Reich. All the rest are collector fantasy for the money they pay for it.

The S/42 works and most other WWI or other don't work. If they do work they are too expensive to fire repeatedly with the accuracy of the P-08. WWI P-08s have a lot of damage in the bore and in the original parts to fire. They will break in time to be useless to fire or useless to fire because they are so old and cherished by collectors.

I want a working gun when I buy a gun. It will not be a safe queen to show others. It will be a firing and functional P-08.

My view.

[johnii]

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

sure if thats what you like

I remember seeing the ads for lugers from the early 60's and earlier for $65 or so - and I am only 3 yrs younger

Okay. Does three years younger mean 1954 or 1960?

I'm 1957 birth date.

[johnii]

Originally Posted by Arizona Slim

I was speaking with a fellow Luger enthusiast from Florida the other day, a gentleman in his early 80's that I had just made a purchase from on ebay, he told me that his first Luger was an Artillery that he paid a whopping $17.00 for, I didn't get the year he made the purchase but I think it was in the early or middle 50's, anyway it made think I may have overpaid for the 1917 Artillery I bought at auction in early 1964 for the princely sum of $56.00, just kidding. My monthly salary at that time was $350.00.

Lon

So what did you pay aside from historical payments paid for P-08s?

I said in the 1960's P-08s were surplus sold at dirt cheap prices. What did you pay for your 1917 Artillery? Okay I get it. You didn't buy it but now you wish you had!

That is my point. P-08s were DIRT CHEAP in the 1960's and today they are very expensive. We pay the expense today because no handgun in the world produced today compares to the P-08. We know recent repros are JUNK compared to what the Third Reich and previous German Luger pistol in WWI. I rest my case.

If you want a real Luger P-08 you buy the original and you avoid Huston TX or whoever to reproduce the real item. I am reinforcing our love for the historical P-08. I had an Erfurt that malfunctioned in .30 Luger and I took it back. It was a WWI P-08. I was reimbursed. I never had a problem with WWII S/42 and that is why I like them to shoot them.

Repros like Mitchell and Huston or Eagle or whoever are not selling the quality of a WWI or WWII P-08. Are we not on the same sheet of music here?

Swiss and Navy and Artillery expensive models are probably faulty to shoot over and over again without devaluing them. Not the S/42 issued military soldier sidearm. I want working guns. Not safe queens.

[Arizona Slim]

Originally Posted by johnii

What did you pay for your 1917 Artillery? Okay I get it. You didn't buy it but now you wish you had!

No, I bought the Luger ($56,00) and since then wished I had bought the second Artillery that was offered, but I did win three other guns so I walked away happy.

Lon

[johnii]

So you got more than one for a "win" of some sort.

Good for you!

My point is there is no pistol in the world made today that is like the original P-08. It is too expensive to reproduce and it is also very expensive to buy with all matching parts.

Furthermore, the toggle joint the Luger uses is historical in design. All other auto pistols use a tilted barrel like the 1911 or Hi Power or blowback for lesser than 9mm Luger.

The design of the P-08 is historic and reliable. It is a true invention in semi automatic history where we gather together to select our sidearms no matter what price because we believe in them.

[johnii]

Okay.

I have the Hi Power and the SIG 210 and had the CZ-75s and 85's and the B models of CZ for the 9mm and the SW 59 and 39 and Beretta M9 and the P-38s (I still have them: the P-38s from Spreewerke and Walther). Today I have 6 9mm Lugers:

1. Spreewerke P-38
2. Walther P-38
3. Browning Hi Power
4. Mauser WWII S/42 1936
5. Mauser WWII S/42 1937
6. SIG P210 Swiss Army

I think I know 9mm by now and I won't buy a non-functioning 9mm Luger in any pistol and I've been through a lot of 9mm pistols since 1972.

The above are my remaining and this is a P-08 forum and you will notice I have two reliable P-08s from S/42 Mauser.
I will not ever sell my Mausers to anyone. I like guns that work and I have no safe queens.

[Ajruger]

I just have to ask. How can you possibly remember 1958 & 1959 when you were just born in 57? Must have some memory.

[wlyon]

In 1961 I had just graduated from college ( after 4 years in the Navy). I went to work as a Federal Forester for $4040 per year. That was $336 per month before taxes ,health insurance etc. My take home was around $270 per month. Yes lugers were selling for $60 to $80 but that was a third of my take home pay! So take a third of your present monthly salary and you have a comparison for what you would pay today for a luger. Example you earn $60000 per year or $5000 per month luger sells for $1650. Sure I earned more over the years but lugers prices were also going up. Bill

[cirelaw]

You really deserve every one you have!!!!!Eric

[Maestro]

what happens when you're bit by the Luger bug? the flu is really expensive to treat!