1921 DWM front strap S.W.I. 6.5.1.

soje · 03-26-2014, 07:09 AM

Can anyone tell me about this unit mark? I would like to know anything that anyone may have to share about the gun in general, as well.

Neil Young · 03-26-2014, 07:25 AM

It is a police Luger. I have S.W.I. 764. with serial number 87156. This indicates hat it was the property of the Schutzpolizei (Schupo) command in Frankfurt am Main in the Wiesbaden Administrative District, weapon number 764. Yours is weapon number 651. This pistol is one of the anomalous 1921 dated DWM’s with a five-digit serial number. They are a cross between military and commercial models that DWM apparently put together about the time that their military production was shut down by the IMKK (Interallied Military Control Commission). The IMKK was a commission of victorious allies that was formed to insure that military and police activities conformed to the Treaty of Versailles. (The above information was supplied by Don Maus, author of History Writ in Steel).

The 1920 and 1921 marked pistols were made for the Weimar Reichswehr, with 8,000 to 10,000 produced. Five-digit serial number pistols were interspersed within these, with S/N between 85473 to 89572. Estimated army and police production of five-digit 1921 marked pistols is 1,100, with most being police procurement (Weimar Lugers, page 13).

Edward Tinker · 03-26-2014, 09:16 AM

The weapon number is 651, there is not always correlation between how many guns there were and the unit - close but not exact.

I believe that the five digit numbering was them continuing their previous commercial numbering from before and during WW1 - and thus you see commercial guns (5-digit) and military marked ones (4-digit with or without suffix) at the same time period. Later it was all military style marked, except for some contract guns.

Don M · 03-27-2014, 11:42 AM

I agree with Neil that these 5-digit 1921 DWMs were an attempt in that year to circumvent the IMKK's order to cease production of 9-mm military/police P08s. I believe DWM added a leading "8" to the serial numbers of 9-mm P08s to "commercialize" them. The 8xxxx range is consistent with a continuation of the pre-WWI commercial serial numbers. In many cases, the placement of the serial number is skewed to the left by the addition of this digit suggesting the 8s were added to previously stamped 4-digit serial numbers, including some with letter suffixes. This appears to be the case in the photo of the barrel serial number. Is it also the case for the serial number on the front of the frame?

Edward Tinker · 03-27-2014, 03:39 PM

the four digit with an added 8 in front is a different run than the true five digit commercial lugers...

Don M · 03-28-2014, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

the four digit with an added 8 in front is a different run than the true five digit commercial lugers...

The 8xxxx DWM P08s with 1921 (and 1920) chamber dates are clearly different from the true commercial Parabellums in that serial range but I'm not sure that they have a separate serial range. I have scanned Dwight Gruber's commercial data base and don't see any examples of duplicate serial numbers where one is a commercial Parabellum and the other a 1920/21 dated P08. Of course, the data sample is small but, until we see such duplication of serial numbers, I don't think we can rule out that both types of pistols may have been numbered in the same serial range. If they were, it was probably a headache for the DWM management to avoid duplication.

Reviewing Dwight's database reminded me that many 8xxxx P08s have 1920 chamber dates in addition to those with 1921 dates.

03-26-2014, 07:09 AM	#1
soje New User Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 1 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	1921 DWM front strap S.W.I. 6.5.1. Can anyone tell me about this unit mark? I would like to know anything that anyone may have to share about the gun in general, as well.

03-26-2014, 07:25 AM	#2
Neil Young Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Scottsboro, Alabama Posts: 546 Thanks: 559 Thanked 442 Times in 168 Posts	It is a police Luger. I have S.W.I. 764. with serial number 87156. This indicates hat it was the property of the Schutzpolizei (Schupo) command in Frankfurt am Main in the Wiesbaden Administrative District, weapon number 764. Yours is weapon number 651. This pistol is one of the anomalous 1921 dated DWM’s with a five-digit serial number. They are a cross between military and commercial models that DWM apparently put together about the time that their military production was shut down by the IMKK (Interallied Military Control Commission). The IMKK was a commission of victorious allies that was formed to insure that military and police activities conformed to the Treaty of Versailles. (The above information was supplied by Don Maus, author of History Writ in Steel). The 1920 and 1921 marked pistols were made for the Weimar Reichswehr, with 8,000 to 10,000 produced. Five-digit serial number pistols were interspersed within these, with S/N between 85473 to 89572. Estimated army and police production of five-digit 1921 marked pistols is 1,100, with most being police procurement (Weimar Lugers, page 13). __________________ Neil The hurrier I go the behinder I get. Sometimes it takes me all day to get nothing done.

03-27-2014, 11:42 AM	#4
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	I agree with Neil that these 5-digit 1921 DWMs were an attempt in that year to circumvent the IMKK's order to cease production of 9-mm military/police P08s. I believe DWM added a leading "8" to the serial numbers of 9-mm P08s to "commercialize" them. The 8xxxx range is consistent with a continuation of the pre-WWI commercial serial numbers. In many cases, the placement of the serial number is skewed to the left by the addition of this digit suggesting the 8s were added to previously stamped 4-digit serial numbers, including some with letter suffixes. This appears to be the case in the photo of the barrel serial number. Is it also the case for the serial number on the front of the frame? __________________ Regards, Don [email protected] Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

03-26-2014, 09:16 AM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	The weapon number is 651, there is not always correlation between how many guns there were and the unit - close but not exact. I believe that the five digit numbering was them continuing their previous commercial numbering from before and during WW1 - and thus you see commercial guns (5-digit) and military marked ones (4-digit with or without suffix) at the same time period. Later it was all military style marked, except for some contract guns.

03-27-2014, 03:39 PM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	the four digit with an added 8 in front is a different run than the true five digit commercial lugers...