Forum "culture"

[berkmberk1]

I'm trying to get a feel for the culture of this board. The only other one I currently haunt will remain unnamed. They deal with Russian hardware. Their way of looking at collecting/conservation is one of "NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, alter, redo, refinish, (and for some) clean ANYTHING, under threat of eternal punishment from the great Slavic god Mosin. Even taking off "too much" cosmoline from a 91/30 is considered by some to be sacrilegious, as that cosmoline is "historic", and removing it is destroying history! You should hear them wail when they see a rifle that has been restored, even if it was previously a rusty wreck. In one instance, a member wondered how to clean the gunk off the stock of his newly acquired rifle so he could shoot it. Another member strongly suggested that he purchase a new synthetic stock and mount the action in it for the range, so as to not compromise the "historic" condition of the rifle as it came out of the shipping case!

Hell should have such flames

My question is, what is the general consensus/opinion of this board toward various degrees of restoration and conservation?

[ithacaartist]

Welcome to the forum, Michael,

I'll toss out a few generalities, as I understand them. What collectors here seek is something in as close condition possible to how it left the factory, so condition is all--for collecting. Matching serial numbers is a biggie, and in the case of an all-matching gun in train wreck shape, many will entertain the concept or restoration. There are those who, too, who would never consider such a thing, much like your other forum. If a pistol has significant issues, such as restoration, refinishing, mis-matched parts, changed-out barrel, it is on the shooter side of the line. The line, at times can be fuzzy when it comes to high condition shooters or slightly hurtin' collectibles, if you know what I mean. Unnumbered or mis-matched grips can be a deal breaker for some, but most, not so much. Mismatched magazines are the norm, and a matching one adds a hefty plus to the rig.

So I guess we're not so iron-pants here--at least not to the extent you describe in the other group. It is fairly standard advice to a new Luger owner to clean and lube his/her pistol thoroughly and properly, avoiding damage to the finish, and preventing oxidation. It is also commonly acknowledged that, though one risks his investment and puts history in peril if a matched part should break, it is his personal property and his business alone if he wants to shoot a collectible. Many serious collectors would never shoot a collectible, but some do, in extreme moderation. And if something happens, we all share a bit of the pain, mourn the loss, and move on with life as we look for our next Luger!

I notice you did not mention the Parabellum pistol once in your post. Whatcha got?

[John Sabato]

Michael
Flaming isn't allowed or tolerated here. Everyone is entitled to express honest opinions. Welcome to the finest gun forum on the internet from a fellow comrade in arms.

John Sabato
SFC, USA Ret.

[berkmberk1]

Thanks for the input. In general, I agree with the notion that you don't fool with something in good condition. I also appreciate the idea that here, we are dealing with a rather rare commodity....not like M1 Garands, Russian M1891/30s or the myriad of WW2 and later Mausers. Personally, I keep my weapons clean! I was trained that way. If there's gunk on it, historical or not, its coming off, as well as the "historical" mud in the butt plate screws, and the "historical" dirt, pine needles, etc in the barrel channel under the hand guards, for example. The stock will be clean, the rust on the metal reduced as best it can be with something like a rag and a proper cleaning/lubricating medium. I like clean.....good looking "guns".

I have yet to receive it, but I have a 1916 DWM Army model coming. By the photos, and the dealers unverified opinion, it may be reblued. However, if it was, it looks like a fine job to me! Its all matching, in the 6xxx d range.

I must say, you guys are a mellow bunch..........this should be fun!

[alanint]

Welcome aboard! We are not so much mellow as polite and respectful. New members seem to sense that and settle in. I've seen only a very few actually get banned from this site.

[cirelaw]

Welcome, A great topic! I have always viewed it as 'Luger Plastic Surgery' It has its' place and many don't mind the unnatural result! I've always opted for the pure and natural. Luger wear is like natural ageing. Lugers age naturally as does fine wine! Once the bottle is opened however there is no way to return the cork to the bottle! ~~Eric

[mrerick]

This board reflects and embraces many decades of experience collecting and evaluating Lugers.

I think that the preferences for Luger characteristics must have evolved over quite a bit of time, and quite a few people interested in Lugers.

There are so many variations, and so many defining characteristics that this niche of the collecting hobby can sometimes be daunting. For that reason, you'll find quite a few people (dealers, gun-shows, isolated "experts") ready and willing to "help" you by misidentifying and over-valuing lesser Luger pistols. Thankfully, you won't find those people here. This website is something of the antidote to cheating people that haven't studied Lugers enough to judge them on their own.

As David said, Luger collectors value Luger pistols in as close as possible to original factory state. That means all matching and in original finish condition, without modern import marking and with as little finish and operational wear as possible. There are not that many of these available, and they don't come onto the market very often. Thus, they are valued highly, and priced accordingly.

Magazines were routinely swapped and lost in the field, which is why it's so unusual today to find a pistol with it's matching magazine or magazines. This increases value when found.

Things move from that ideal condition through mismatched refinished Lugers that don't work very well.

Clearly, if a numbered part on an all matching Luger is broken, and has to be replaced, you've departed quite a bit from the ideal collectible pistol. For that reason, many of us never shoot all matching collectible Lugers.

There will be no more original complete Lugers in close to factory state. When someone shoots one and breaks it, my Lugers become more valuable. As more become interested in this fascinating pistol and it's extensive history, demand rises and my Lugers become more valuable.

- - - - -

It's interesting to see how many people stop by the board with preconceived notions and related anxieties. Members here will tell the truth as they perceive it, based upon cumulative centuries of collecting experience with Lugers in hand and rather expensive reference libraries. That is what I call "Luger University". Books are a great first investment.

Some people find that difficult to accept. If it's refinished, often a studied eye can determine that, and the person that was sold an all matching original Luger doesn't like hearing that. If Grandfather brought back a Luger from the war, and the photos show it's a 1920s Alphabet Commercial with import marks, it's hard to accept that Grandpa didn't know or made up the story. If someone paid a very high price for a "Navy" Luger, only to find out it was actually manufactured in Minnesota in the late 1990s from old commercial Luger parts and modern die stamps, it's hard to accept the loss and being cheated.

So, welcome to the forum. Listen a a lot, and contribute when you can, especially as you gain experience and study.


Happy collecting!!!

[Curly1]

Welcome to the forum.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by cirelaw

...'Luger Plastic Surgery'...has its' place and many don't mind the unnatural result!...

... ...

[cirelaw]

Alot depends on whose doing the surgery!