B.8.r.4.7

FirstCav · 07-25-2014, 03:23 PM

New user. 2nd Luger. Non matching. 1913. Serial # 2143 no suffix is on frame, barrel and most parts. 28 on toggle, side plate maybe more. The pistol is in transit. Pictures on Gunbroker # 426715658.

Can anyone identify the unit? B.8.R.4.7 on front strap.

THANX!

George Anderson · 07-25-2014, 04:05 PM

Bavarian Infantry Regiment 8, 4th company, weapon number 7.

FirstCav · 07-26-2014, 09:51 AM

Thank you George. I'm assuming that would be from WWI. I don't remember seeing any proof marks from the Nazi period. I wonder where the pistol was after its service in WWI. Thanx again for sharing your knowledge.

John

roadkill1 · 07-27-2014, 10:37 PM

John:

Yes, the unit identification that George listed is WWI vintage.

Thought you might be interested in a little more of history that your handsome Luger "experienced"…….This unit was first organized on 10 January 1753 with its headquarters and all its battalions and companies located in Metz and remained in Metz until 1914.

This unit was part of the 8th Bavarian Brigade, of the 33rd Reserve Division of the 16th Corps and remained with this division until July/August of 1916. During this period, it fought in battles around Nomeny, Gondrecourt, Rouvres Etain, Woevre, Cotes de Meuse, Les Eparges and Calonne.

In July/August of 1916, the 8th Bavarian Brigade (including the 8th Bavarian Regiment) was detached from the 33rd Bavarian Reserve Division and was used to form the 14th Bavarian Division. The 8th Bavarian Regiment remained with the 14th Bavarian Division for the remainder of the war and fought in the battles of Verdun, Somme-Ancre and experienced heavy casualties in early 1917 during the Battle of Artois (Arras) against the British.

During April 26-28, 1917, the 14 Bavarian Division was sent to the Eastern Front, going on line in Lipsk and participated in the Battle of Riga, and then Galicia. On December 19, 1917, this division was sent back to the Western Front initially going on line on January 12, 1918 in the Mont Haut Sector where it participated in the Battle of Champagne followed by Picardy.

In terms of combat effectiveness, initially the 33rd Reserve Division was rated as a good fighting vigorously against the French at Verdun. However, this division was never able to recover from its combat losses for the remaining portion of the war and was disbanded in August of 1918.

Previous to 1918, the 14th Bavarian Division was rated by the Allies as First Class. But after that date, the effectiveness of this division seems to have fallen off and was not used in any of the German offensives.

The above information was extracted from "Histories of Two Hundred and Fifty-One Divisions of the German Army Which Participated in the War (1914-1918) and published by the United States War Office in 1920.

Congrats as you have an excellent piece of History from a interesting unit!!

Ron

FirstCav · 07-29-2014, 05:53 PM

Ron:

Thank you for that information. We took the pistol to the range today for the first time. It is an absolute pleasure to shoot. It does not have a hold back nor a rear sight. It must have missed the hold back retrofit due to war conditions. I believe the rear sight is missing due to a replacement toggle which was probably for a Navy or artillery model. Lugers are fascinating.

Thanx again,

John

George Anderson · 07-29-2014, 06:20 PM

John, neither Bavaria nor Wurtemberg sent their early P08s in to be retrofitted with hold-opens.

klaus 3338 · 07-30-2014, 02:30 AM

George,
a part of the early Württemberg Lugers had got the hold open when the Great War started. The P08 were called back from the Erfurt factory via telegramm.

FirstCav · 07-30-2014, 08:27 AM

Hi Y'all:

I'm really impressed by the knowledge of this group/forum. Thank you so much for this very interesting info.

My father was from Deggendorf. Are the names of the members of the 8th Bavarian available? It would be quite a coincidence if this pistol was in the same unit as an ancestor.

Take care,

John

George Anderson · 08-01-2014, 02:58 PM

The Bavarian 8th Infantry Regiment was garrisoned in Metz which is a fortress city in Alsace. Deggendorf is in Niederbayern or lower Bavaria. I believe the closest garrison town was Passau, home of the 16th Bavarian Infantry Regiment.

07-25-2014, 03:23 PM	#1
FirstCav User Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Western NC Posts: 5 Thanks: 4 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	B.8.r.4.7 New user. 2nd Luger. Non matching. 1913. Serial # 2143 no suffix is on frame, barrel and most parts. 28 on toggle, side plate maybe more. The pistol is in transit. Pictures on Gunbroker # 426715658. Can anyone identify the unit? B.8.R.4.7 on front strap. THANX!

07-26-2014, 09:51 AM	#3
FirstCav User Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Western NC Posts: 5 Thanks: 4 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Many thanx! Thank you George. I'm assuming that would be from WWI. I don't remember seeing any proof marks from the Nazi period. I wonder where the pistol was after its service in WWI. Thanx again for sharing your knowledge. John

07-29-2014, 05:53 PM	#5
FirstCav User Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Western NC Posts: 5 Thanks: 4 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Many Thanx! Ron: Thank you for that information. We took the pistol to the range today for the first time. It is an absolute pleasure to shoot. It does not have a hold back nor a rear sight. It must have missed the hold back retrofit due to war conditions. I believe the rear sight is missing due to a replacement toggle which was probably for a Navy or artillery model. Lugers are fascinating. Thanx again, John

07-30-2014, 08:27 AM	#8
FirstCav User Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Western NC Posts: 5 Thanks: 4 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Wow Hi Y'all: I'm really impressed by the knowledge of this group/forum. Thank you so much for this very interesting info. My father was from Deggendorf. Are the names of the members of the 8th Bavarian available? It would be quite a coincidence if this pistol was in the same unit as an ancestor. Take care, John Last edited by FirstCav; 08-01-2014 at 08:22 AM. Reason: Post didn't show up as new.

07-25-2014, 04:05 PM	#2
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,529 Times in 787 Posts	Bavarian Infantry Regiment 8, 4th company, weapon number 7.

07-27-2014, 10:37 PM	#4
roadkill1 Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Virginia Posts: 127 Thanks: 166 Thanked 129 Times in 63 Posts	John: Yes, the unit identification that George listed is WWI vintage. Thought you might be interested in a little more of history that your handsome Luger "experienced"…….This unit was first organized on 10 January 1753 with its headquarters and all its battalions and companies located in Metz and remained in Metz until 1914. This unit was part of the 8th Bavarian Brigade, of the 33rd Reserve Division of the 16th Corps and remained with this division until July/August of 1916. During this period, it fought in battles around Nomeny, Gondrecourt, Rouvres Etain, Woevre, Cotes de Meuse, Les Eparges and Calonne. In July/August of 1916, the 8th Bavarian Brigade (including the 8th Bavarian Regiment) was detached from the 33rd Bavarian Reserve Division and was used to form the 14th Bavarian Division. The 8th Bavarian Regiment remained with the 14th Bavarian Division for the remainder of the war and fought in the battles of Verdun, Somme-Ancre and experienced heavy casualties in early 1917 during the Battle of Artois (Arras) against the British. During April 26-28, 1917, the 14 Bavarian Division was sent to the Eastern Front, going on line in Lipsk and participated in the Battle of Riga, and then Galicia. On December 19, 1917, this division was sent back to the Western Front initially going on line on January 12, 1918 in the Mont Haut Sector where it participated in the Battle of Champagne followed by Picardy. In terms of combat effectiveness, initially the 33rd Reserve Division was rated as a good fighting vigorously against the French at Verdun. However, this division was never able to recover from its combat losses for the remaining portion of the war and was disbanded in August of 1918. Previous to 1918, the 14th Bavarian Division was rated by the Allies as First Class. But after that date, the effectiveness of this division seems to have fallen off and was not used in any of the German offensives. The above information was extracted from "Histories of Two Hundred and Fifty-One Divisions of the German Army Which Participated in the War (1914-1918) and published by the United States War Office in 1920. Congrats as you have an excellent piece of History from a interesting unit!! Ron

07-29-2014, 06:20 PM	#6
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,529 Times in 787 Posts	John, neither Bavaria nor Wurtemberg sent their early P08s in to be retrofitted with hold-opens.

07-30-2014, 02:30 AM	#7
klaus 3338 User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 517 Thanks: 0 Thanked 411 Times in 160 Posts	George, a part of the early Württemberg Lugers had got the hold open when the Great War started. The P08 were called back from the Erfurt factory via telegramm.

08-01-2014, 02:58 PM	#9
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,529 Times in 787 Posts	The Bavarian 8th Infantry Regiment was garrisoned in Metz which is a fortress city in Alsace. Deggendorf is in Niederbayern or lower Bavaria. I believe the closest garrison town was Passau, home of the 16th Bavarian Infantry Regiment.