1920 DWM .30 cal

jshep · 12-20-2014, 08:47 PM

im considering a 1920 DWM and I'm not sure what to ask the seller in regards to this piece, he claims its numbers matching but i don't see a number on the side plate...what exactly was numbered on a 1920 DWM? includes 2 mags (i believe not matching to the period but i may be wrong they are the black bottom magazines so please inform me of the correct magazines for this piece) he's asking $1,100 and his BOTTOM DOLLAR is $1,000. He's also minutes away form me which makes this luger VERY tempting, some input would be greatly appreciated, thanks gents!
-Justin

alvin · 12-20-2014, 09:11 PM

The sideplate is numbered, it's 2 digit at the bottom edge of the plate. Same is true for the takedown latch. Magazine should have walnut bottom, most likely unnumbered, silver bright body, bottom holding pin should be fire blued. Usually, it's very safe Luger, no gunsmith play game on this variation. I have one, one guy offered me $1300, I rejected, not because the price not being right, but this is my only Luger, so very precious to me.

hayhugh · 12-20-2014, 09:15 PM

Yes, there is suppose to be two numbers on Breechblock, extractor, grips, receiver, side plate, takedown lever, thumb safety lever, toggle and trigger. Full number on front of frame and bottom of barrel.

jshep · 12-20-2014, 09:32 PM

so it indeed is NOT numbers matching like advertised, so what would be a suitable offer? considering its got a few parts not matching, no matching magazines, but in pretty good condition, judging from the pictures.

Edward Tinker · 12-20-2014, 10:22 PM

whoa, whoa, lets figure out what it is before declaring it a mismatch. If it is fine.

Is it dated 1920?

I assume that is what you meant, but it makes a difference in if it is commercially marked or if it is military marked.....

jshep · 12-20-2014, 10:31 PM

edawrd here is a few of the pictures provided, it appears there is no date stamped, nor is there a serial # on the side plate, or take down lever.

jshep · 12-20-2014, 10:37 PM

sorry but my computers not uploading photos, but it appears as though the side plate, take down lever and safety bar is un numbered...

Edward Tinker · 12-20-2014, 10:37 PM

1920 DWM is an old name - is the serial number 4 digit with a letter under it or is it a 5 digit?

Since it is 30 Luger (7.65mm) I would expect it to be marked in the 'hidden' style, i.e. take-down lever and sideplate being marked with the last two on the bottom of the sideplate and takedown...

alvin · 12-20-2014, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jshep

he's asking $1,100 and his BOTTOM DOLLAR is $1,000.

He told you his bottom is $1k, then it's $1k. Does not hurt to bargain a little bit, at least asking him to include shipping in. Shipping is not big money, but just like we (well,,, at least, I) keep turning off lights after leaving a room. Not really saved a few dollars per year that way, but that make us feel good. Of course, the bottom line is gun must be correct and original. If not? then, no need to bargain. There are many guns being original and correct.

jshep · 12-20-2014, 11:07 PM

Edward
it is a 4 digit with letter underneath, the letter "appears"... and i STRESS the quotations... to be an "n".
it "appears" because the quality of the picture isn't that great

jshep · 12-20-2014, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alvin

He told you his bottom is $1k, then it's $1k. Does not hurt to bargain a little bit

true, but i don't want to give him $1,000 for an $800 firearm, and shipping isn't an issue due to him being in the same zip code...

Dwight Gruber · 12-21-2014, 01:14 AM

Justin,

You are to be commended for exercising due diligence in the consideration of this Luger.

It sounds like you are a serious buyer, and you are willing and able to consider spending an adequate amount of money for engaging in the Luger collecting hobby at the entry level.

You lack the experience to know how to value this pistol, indeed, to know how to answer pertinent questions about it to determine that value. Please note that this is not a criticism. You have forthrightly represented your circumstances, and by contacting this Forum you have taken the first steps in rectifying this situation to becoming a knowledgeable and responsible buyer.

In my opinion, you should walk away from this deal. There are too many questions about this gun which cannot be answered without knowledgeable, detailed examination; or at least a number of specific, detailed photographs. Save your money, add to it, and spend your time poring over the Forum to become more familiar with the topic. Simple proximity to the seller should never be a primary consideration.

There will always be another Luger.

--Dwight

wlyon · 12-21-2014, 02:19 AM

Justin
You just got some excellent advice from one who knows. Keep looking and you will find what you want. The wait will be worth it. Bill

alvin · 12-21-2014, 08:26 AM

$1000 can easily find a DWM 1920. No need to get one in hurry. That's true.

jshep · 12-21-2014, 09:33 AM

Thanks for the advice Dwight
looks like i'll sit on it and hold out for something better...

Ben M. · 12-21-2014, 01:23 PM

are you looking to buy a shooter or a collectors gun? if shooter, that 30 luger ammo is a cost to keep in minds

spacecoast · 03-02-2015, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Yes, there is suppose to be two numbers on Breechblock, extractor, grips, receiver, side plate, takedown lever, thumb safety lever, toggle and trigger. Full number on front of frame and bottom of barrel.

IIRC, Alphabet Commercials do not have numbered safety levers and grips from the factory.

mrerick · 03-02-2015, 02:59 PM

As mentioned, walk away.

Commercial DWM Alphabet Lugers in 7.65mm Luger are valued less than military Lugers in 9mm or other military associated variants.

Watch here for members to list things. They are generally at fair prices, and if they have been collecting awhile should have a history you can check.

Marc

AR-50A1 · 03-11-2015, 10:13 PM

Hi All,

Just for your info: Fiocchi, boxer primed, .30 Luger ammo can be had at Graf & Sons for $23.99/box of 50. http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/...productId/3740 .

Bill

AR-50A1 · 03-11-2015, 10:28 PM

Here is what I gleaned from Jan Still's Weimar Lugers book:

Weimar Alphabet DWM Luger

Upright Crown over N proofs
7.65mm caliber
3 5/8" barrel
Un-numbered firing pin
Unmarked hold-open
Un-number wood bottom magazine
Not marked GERMANY
Commercial serial number range are in the i, k, l, m, n, o, p, q, r serial range
Primarily undated receivers
Some in the i suffix range are dated 1921
A few with 9mm pistols with 4" barrels were intended for military or police

Please correct me if I have posted erroneous information.
Please see Post #21 for additional information and clarifications. Thanks Dwight!

Bill

12-20-2014, 08:47 PM	#1
jshep User Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Eastern NC Posts: 23 Thanks: 4 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	1920 DWM .30 cal im considering a 1920 DWM and I'm not sure what to ask the seller in regards to this piece, he claims its numbers matching but i don't see a number on the side plate...what exactly was numbered on a 1920 DWM? includes 2 mags (i believe not matching to the period but i may be wrong they are the black bottom magazines so please inform me of the correct magazines for this piece) he's asking $1,100 and his BOTTOM DOLLAR is $1,000. He's also minutes away form me which makes this luger VERY tempting, some input would be greatly appreciated, thanks gents! -Justin

12-20-2014, 10:22 PM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	whoa, whoa, lets figure out what it is before declaring it a mismatch. If it is fine. Is it dated 1920? I assume that is what you meant, but it makes a difference in if it is commercially marked or if it is military marked..... __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

12-20-2014, 10:37 PM	#8
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	1920 DWM is an old name - is the serial number 4 digit with a letter under it or is it a 5 digit? Since it is 30 Luger (7.65mm) I would expect it to be marked in the 'hidden' style, i.e. take-down lever and sideplate being marked with the last two on the bottom of the sideplate and takedown... __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

12-21-2014, 02:19 AM	#13
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,637 Thanks: 3,174 Thanked 2,561 Times in 956 Posts	Justin You just got some excellent advice from one who knows. Keep looking and you will find what you want. The wait will be worth it. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

03-02-2015, 02:59 PM	#18
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,909 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,510 Posts	As mentioned, walk away. Commercial DWM Alphabet Lugers in 7.65mm Luger are valued less than military Lugers in 9mm or other military associated variants. Watch here for members to list things. They are generally at fair prices, and if they have been collecting awhile should have a history you can check. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

12-20-2014, 09:11 PM	#2
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	The sideplate is numbered, it's 2 digit at the bottom edge of the plate. Same is true for the takedown latch. Magazine should have walnut bottom, most likely unnumbered, silver bright body, bottom holding pin should be fire blued. Usually, it's very safe Luger, no gunsmith play game on this variation. I have one, one guy offered me $1300, I rejected, not because the price not being right, but this is my only Luger, so very precious to me.

12-20-2014, 09:15 PM	#3
hayhugh User Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Florida/Penna Posts: 896 Thanks: 857 Thanked 513 Times in 275 Posts	Yes, there is suppose to be two numbers on Breechblock, extractor, grips, receiver, side plate, takedown lever, thumb safety lever, toggle and trigger. Full number on front of frame and bottom of barrel.

12-20-2014, 09:32 PM	#4
jshep User Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Eastern NC Posts: 23 Thanks: 4 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	so it indeed is NOT numbers matching like advertised, so what would be a suitable offer? considering its got a few parts not matching, no matching magazines, but in pretty good condition, judging from the pictures.

12-20-2014, 10:31 PM	#6
jshep User Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Eastern NC Posts: 23 Thanks: 4 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	edawrd here is a few of the pictures provided, it appears there is no date stamped, nor is there a serial # on the side plate, or take down lever.

12-20-2014, 11:07 PM	#10
jshep User Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Eastern NC Posts: 23 Thanks: 4 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Edward it is a 4 digit with letter underneath, the letter "appears"... and i STRESS the quotations... to be an "n". it "appears" because the quality of the picture isn't that great

12-21-2014, 01:14 AM	#12
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,318 Times in 431 Posts	Justin, You are to be commended for exercising due diligence in the consideration of this Luger. It sounds like you are a serious buyer, and you are willing and able to consider spending an adequate amount of money for engaging in the Luger collecting hobby at the entry level. You lack the experience to know how to value this pistol, indeed, to know how to answer pertinent questions about it to determine that value. Please note that this is not a criticism. You have forthrightly represented your circumstances, and by contacting this Forum you have taken the first steps in rectifying this situation to becoming a knowledgeable and responsible buyer. In my opinion, you should walk away from this deal. There are too many questions about this gun which cannot be answered without knowledgeable, detailed examination; or at least a number of specific, detailed photographs. Save your money, add to it, and spend your time poring over the Forum to become more familiar with the topic. Simple proximity to the seller should never be a primary consideration. There will always be another Luger. --Dwight

12-21-2014, 08:26 AM	#14
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	$1000 can easily find a DWM 1920. No need to get one in hurry. That's true.

12-21-2014, 09:33 AM	#15
jshep User Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Eastern NC Posts: 23 Thanks: 4 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Thanks for the advice Dwight looks like i'll sit on it and hold out for something better...

12-21-2014, 01:23 PM	#16
Ben M. User Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Retired to Naples, FL. Posts: 488 Thanks: 90 Thanked 123 Times in 83 Posts	are you looking to buy a shooter or a collectors gun? if shooter, that 30 luger ammo is a cost to keep in minds

03-11-2015, 10:13 PM	#19
AR-50A1 Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Yuma, AZ Posts: 165 Thanks: 40 Thanked 81 Times in 35 Posts	Hi All, Just for your info: Fiocchi, boxer primed, .30 Luger ammo can be had at Graf & Sons for $23.99/box of 50. http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/...productId/3740 . Bill

03-11-2015, 10:28 PM	#20
AR-50A1 Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Yuma, AZ Posts: 165 Thanks: 40 Thanked 81 Times in 35 Posts	Here is what I gleaned from Jan Still's Weimar Lugers book: Weimar Alphabet DWM Luger Upright Crown over N proofs 7.65mm caliber 3 5/8" barrel Un-numbered firing pin Unmarked hold-open Un-number wood bottom magazine Not marked GERMANY Commercial serial number range are in the i, k, l, m, n, o, p, q, r serial range Primarily undated receivers Some in the i suffix range are dated 1921 A few with 9mm pistols with 4" barrels were intended for military or police Please correct me if I have posted erroneous information. Please see Post #21 for additional information and clarifications. Thanks Dwight! Bill Last edited by AR-50A1; 03-12-2015 at 03:42 PM. Reason: Corrections