1946-era Luger Cartridge Descriptions

sheepherder · 12-27-2015, 12:34 PM

I stumbled on these while browsing the 1946 edition (4th printing 1953) of the NRA Book Of Small Arms, Volume 1, Pistols and Revolvers. I don't present it as the definitive description of these cartridges but as what shooters/reloaders had as reference material in those times.

There are many other cartridges shown; I posted these because they are the Luger cartridges.

Dimensions may not agree with other published (or believed) descriptions, but it's what the NRA writers observed prior and during 1946.

stressed · 12-28-2015, 07:37 AM

Looks to be talking about a 9mm major load for subgun use if it's 125gr as advertised at 1500fps. 1150 is NATO spec; if not quicker.

sheepherder · 12-28-2015, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stressed

Looks to be talking about a 9mm major load for subgun use if it's 125gr as advertised at 1500fps. 1150 is NATO spec; if not quicker.

... ??? ...That's what it says; 1150fps...

mrerick · 12-28-2015, 11:34 AM

At the bottom toward the end of the paragraph they refer to the sub-gun loads as high as 1,500fps...

BTW - I just ordered a copy of the book via Amazon/Ebay sources. It looks like an interesting documentation of history at that time!

Thanks for the references...

Sieger · 12-30-2015, 06:36 AM

Hi,

Again, these are not original German source materials, and thus, are suspect.

I'd like to see any 9mm Parabellum round loaded to 1,500 fps?!?!? This is surely a myth.

Most of the early post-war materials I have read on the Luger are misinformation.

Stick with the original German factory or military specs. for the truth.

Please also note that the two subject cartridges in the photo are Western Cartridge Company loadings, not original German ones.

Just some thoughts.

Sieger

mrerick · 12-30-2015, 10:41 AM

There is a thorough discussion from German sources of the 9mm ammunition and it's development in the Red (also DVD) Sturgess "The Borschardt and Luger Automatic Pistol" in chapter 20 starting at page 1483.

It includes a page from DWM's loading specifications book for case 480, 480A and 480B (The 9mm) and a variety of bullet shapes.

There is also Luger's original 1913 government dimensional drawing of the 9mm chamber for the Luger and the 1904 German trials cartridge (480C case with 278F truncated cone bullet.

It also includes an overview of commercial ammo from the period, and the development of military loads, including the DWM loading guide for the 9mm from 1913, through post WW-I production and on through WW-II production and special loadings.

I doubt there is better retelling of the cartridge story with original documentation.

If you don't have the DVD of the Sturgess book (available from Simpson Ltd), and you're interested in Lugers, you need to get it.

Marc

12-27-2015, 12:34 PM	#1
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,183 Thanks: 1,400 Thanked 4,442 Times in 2,330 Posts	1946-era Luger Cartridge Descriptions I stumbled on these while browsing the 1946 edition (4th printing 1953) of the NRA Book Of Small Arms, Volume 1, Pistols and Revolvers. I don't present it as the definitive description of these cartridges but as what shooters/reloaders had as reference material in those times. There are many other cartridges shown; I posted these because they are the Luger cartridges. Dimensions may not agree with other published (or believed) descriptions, but it's what the NRA writers observed prior and during 1946. Attached Thumbnails __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

12-28-2015, 11:34 AM	#4
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,909 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,510 Posts	At the bottom toward the end of the paragraph they refer to the sub-gun loads as high as 1,500fps... BTW - I just ordered a copy of the book via Amazon/Ebay sources. It looks like an interesting documentation of history at that time! Thanks for the references... __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

12-30-2015, 10:41 AM	#6
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,909 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,510 Posts	There is a thorough discussion from German sources of the 9mm ammunition and it's development in the Red (also DVD) Sturgess "The Borschardt and Luger Automatic Pistol" in chapter 20 starting at page 1483. It includes a page from DWM's loading specifications book for case 480, 480A and 480B (The 9mm) and a variety of bullet shapes. There is also Luger's original 1913 government dimensional drawing of the 9mm chamber for the Luger and the 1904 German trials cartridge (480C case with 278F truncated cone bullet. It also includes an overview of commercial ammo from the period, and the development of military loads, including the DWM loading guide for the 9mm from 1913, through post WW-I production and on through WW-II production and special loadings. I doubt there is better retelling of the cartridge story with original documentation. If you don't have the DVD of the Sturgess book (available from Simpson Ltd), and you're interested in Lugers, you need to get it. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

12-28-2015, 07:37 AM	#2
stressed User Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 197 Thanks: 41 Thanked 43 Times in 30 Posts	Looks to be talking about a 9mm major load for subgun use if it's 125gr as advertised at 1500fps. 1150 is NATO spec; if not quicker.

12-30-2015, 06:36 AM	#5
Sieger User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,575 Thanks: 2,124 Thanked 400 Times in 249 Posts	Hi, Again, these are not original German source materials, and thus, are suspect. I'd like to see any 9mm Parabellum round loaded to 1,500 fps?!?!? This is surely a myth. Most of the early post-war materials I have read on the Luger are misinformation. Stick with the original German factory or military specs. for the truth. Please also note that the two subject cartridges in the photo are Western Cartridge Company loadings, not original German ones. Just some thoughts. Sieger