researching a luger

research · 12-31-2015, 06:30 PM

first , my name is chris. I am new to this forum and know very little about lugers besides they are cool and some are valuble.

that said,I have an old luger that was passed down to me from my great grandfather. I was wondering if anyone could help me figure out how old it is ,where(and when) manufactured and ballpark worth, for insurance reasons.

it is a 7.65 DWM IT HAS CROWN N MARKINGS. also has wooden rifle stock that goes with it. all parts appear to match up but I believe holster has been replaced at some point.

has not been fired in over 30 years but worked when last used, so believe it still should. it is a bit worn looking but for its age I would say very good shape.
any help would be apriciated

research · 12-31-2015, 06:57 PM

thanks for answering.
barrel is 3". yes, buttstock that slips into grip and yes it is wood. hopefully figure out how to get pics soon. working on it.

DonVoigt · 12-31-2015, 07:06 PM

With a short barrel and a stock the luger combination is ILLEGAL.

It becomes a short barreled rifle and a free trip to club Fed or fine or confiscation or both.

You need to read some posts on the Navy and Artillery lugers(and carbines), as these are legal with stocks.

Don't connect the two and post pictures of each separately.

Edward Tinker · 12-31-2015, 07:45 PM

pictures please and welcome to the forum

research · 12-31-2015, 08:54 PM

see if this works

research · 12-31-2015, 08:57 PM

[QUOTE=DonVoigt;282333]With a short barrel and a stock the luger combination is ILLEGAL.

It becomes a short barreled rifle and a free trip to club Fed or fine or confiscation or both.

You need to read some posts on the Navy and Artillery lugers(and carbines), as these are legal with stocks.

thanks for that. I was not aware. I will keep them seperate.

alvin · 12-31-2015, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by research

I will keep them seperate.

Or, register with BATF. Then, attaching stock is OK. Unlike machine gun, short barrel rifle can still be registered. There is a fee though.

research · 12-31-2015, 09:30 PM

I was looking at some of the buttstocks on other threads mine is nowhere near as nice as some of those.I see where some of them ,the pistol will store inside the butt. the one I have is only about an inch thick.

so I was curious as to wether it was a bad idea to post pics of the butt on this thread, so long as I keep the seperate, would it be O.K.

DonVoigt · 12-31-2015, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by research

I was looking at some of the buttstocks on other threads mine is nowhere near as nice as some of those.I see where some of them ,the pistol will store inside the butt. the one I have is only about an inch thick.

so I was curious as to wether it was a bad idea to post pics of the butt on this thread, so long as I keep the seperate, would it be O.K.

Since you already said you "have" it, I don't see why not.

You can at least find out what it is.

It is better to store the stock at a different location from the luger; if in two different locations,
there is no "constructive" intent. Lawyer words for you may not get in trouble!

research · 12-31-2015, 09:54 PM

that was my thought also , so here it is

DavidJayUden · 12-31-2015, 10:20 PM

OK, it is an Artillery Luger stock. If you can photo the numbers and markings someone can tell you if it is original, but I seriously doubt that it is.
I'd keep them far apart, and don't photo them together.
The Luger looks very nice too, by the way...
dju

research · 12-31-2015, 10:49 PM

o.k. so this is only marking on buttstock

research · 12-31-2015, 10:55 PM

holster is in bad shape but you can see a number, not sure if it is 30 or 80 and then an L.

serial is 7913 and has 13 on various parts
germany
i

under the germany on the barrel I think the symbol is an i

research · 12-31-2015, 10:57 PM

holster

Norme · 12-31-2015, 11:12 PM

Hi Chris, Welcome to the forum! Take another look at the stock, see if it has a crown/gothic letter stamp about half way up on the left side, like the one shown in the photo. If it does then it's an authentic Artillery Luger stock and might be worth almost as much as the gun.
Regards, Norm

research · 12-31-2015, 11:18 PM

nope, no such mark.

research · 12-31-2015, 11:31 PM

out of curiousity ,how long does barrel have to be for buttstock to be legal?

DonVoigt · 01-01-2016, 12:47 AM

RESEARCHER ASKED ABOVE:
"out of curiousity ,how long does barrel have to be for buttstock to be legal?"
I ANSWERED THIS QUESTION - AND ONLY THIS QUESTION:

The pistol has to be an original Navy or Artillery luger.
The stock has to be an original or exact duplicate.

Navy stocks cannot be attached to Artillery lugers; nor vice - versa.
Navy stocks are slightly shorter, and a little different shape than an Artillery stock.

A pistol with a minimum 16.1" barrel would be ok with a stock, as the barrel length would remove it from the "short" barrel category.

The numbered iron on your stock would tend to identify it as an original artillery stock, more/better focused pictures of each side , with a ruler in the picture would help. The stock itself has good value if original, more if marked with the crown/s as shown. It may be very faint on the back side.

I believe the holster in your picture is commercial, and not in great shape, so likely not too much value there.

The pistol does look to be in good shape, a 1920 commercial type, produced and marked for export likely to the US in the early 1920's.
The .30 cal and commercial lugers are not as appealing to most collectors and not valued as highly as a 9mm or military type.

I DON'T APPRECIATE YOUR MIS READING AND THEN SAYING i TOLD YOU THAT YOUR PISTOL WAS EITHER A NAVY OR ARTILLERY,
I DID NOT, RE-READ ABOVE.

iF YOU WOULD KEEP ALL YOUR QUESTIONS IN ONE POST IT WOULD HELP YOU AND EVERYONE ELSE!!!

research · 01-01-2016, 11:37 AM

ok . so I posted on the navy threads and got this response. lol. back to square one.

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Chris,
It is neither an artillery or navy. It is a 1920 "Alphabet" Commercial, so-called because the "i" is actually part of the serial number (i.e. the serial number of your gun is 7913i). In post-war commercial production the method of serial numbering the commercial guns was changed from the previous 5-digit format to the military style 4-digits and a lower case alphabet character. The Crown over N proof indicates that it is commercial rather than military. It is .30 caliber (7.65mm Parabellum) rather than 9mm. As you have been told in the other thread, the stock is of the artillery configuration and must not be attached to this gun as that is illegal under BATFE rules.
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ok that helps. was told on other thread it was navy or artillery. how would one find out the age, where it was made , ball park worth? could anyone recommend a source to find such things out?

lugerholsterrepair · 01-01-2016, 01:39 PM

The stock could have considerable value..let's take a look?

12-31-2015, 06:30 PM	#1
research User Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 34 Thanks: 4 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	researching a luger first , my name is chris. I am new to this forum and know very little about lugers besides they are cool and some are valuble. that said,I have an old luger that was passed down to me from my great grandfather. I was wondering if anyone could help me figure out how old it is ,where(and when) manufactured and ballpark worth, for insurance reasons. it is a 7.65 DWM IT HAS CROWN N MARKINGS. also has wooden rifle stock that goes with it. all parts appear to match up but I believe holster has been replaced at some point. has not been fired in over 30 years but worked when last used, so believe it still should. it is a bit worn looking but for its age I would say very good shape. any help would be apriciated

12-31-2015, 07:06 PM	#3
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,441 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	With a short barrel and a stock the luger combination is ILLEGAL. It becomes a short barreled rifle and a free trip to club Fed or fine or confiscation or both. You need to read some posts on the Navy and Artillery lugers(and carbines), as these are legal with stocks. Don't connect the two and post pictures of each separately. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

12-31-2015, 07:45 PM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,033 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	pictures please and welcome to the forum __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV Last edited by Edward Tinker; 01-02-2016 at 10:39 PM.

12-31-2015, 08:54 PM	#5
research User Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 34 Thanks: 4 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	see if this works Attached Thumbnails

12-31-2015, 09:54 PM	#10
research User Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 34 Thanks: 4 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	that was my thought also , so here it is Attached Images

12-31-2015, 06:57 PM	#2
research User Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 34 Thanks: 4 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	thanks for answering. barrel is 3". yes, buttstock that slips into grip and yes it is wood. hopefully figure out how to get pics soon. working on it.

12-31-2015, 08:57 PM	#6
research User Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 34 Thanks: 4 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	[QUOTE=DonVoigt;282333]With a short barrel and a stock the luger combination is ILLEGAL. It becomes a short barreled rifle and a free trip to club Fed or fine or confiscation or both. You need to read some posts on the Navy and Artillery lugers(and carbines), as these are legal with stocks. thanks for that. I was not aware. I will keep them seperate.

12-31-2015, 09:30 PM	#8
research User Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 34 Thanks: 4 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	I was looking at some of the buttstocks on other threads mine is nowhere near as nice as some of those.I see where some of them ,the pistol will store inside the butt. the one I have is only about an inch thick. so I was curious as to wether it was a bad idea to post pics of the butt on this thread, so long as I keep the seperate, would it be O.K.

12-31-2015, 10:20 PM	#11
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	OK, it is an Artillery Luger stock. If you can photo the numbers and markings someone can tell you if it is original, but I seriously doubt that it is. I'd keep them far apart, and don't photo them together. The Luger looks very nice too, by the way... dju

12-31-2015, 10:49 PM	#12
research User Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 34 Thanks: 4 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	o.k. so this is only marking on buttstock Attached Thumbnails

12-31-2015, 10:55 PM	#13
research User Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 34 Thanks: 4 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	holster is in bad shape but you can see a number, not sure if it is 30 or 80 and then an L. serial is 7913 and has 13 on various parts germany i under the germany on the barrel I think the symbol is an i Attached Thumbnails

12-31-2015, 10:57 PM	#14
research User Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 34 Thanks: 4 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	holster Attached Thumbnails

12-31-2015, 11:12 PM	#15
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Chris, Welcome to the forum! Take another look at the stock, see if it has a crown/gothic letter stamp about half way up on the left side, like the one shown in the photo. If it does then it's an authentic Artillery Luger stock and might be worth almost as much as the gun. Regards, Norm Attached Thumbnails

12-31-2015, 11:18 PM	#16
research User Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 34 Thanks: 4 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	nope, no such mark.

12-31-2015, 11:31 PM	#17
research User Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 34 Thanks: 4 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	out of curiousity ,how long does barrel have to be for buttstock to be legal?

01-01-2016, 12:47 AM	#18
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,441 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	RESEARCHER ASKED ABOVE: "out of curiousity ,how long does barrel have to be for buttstock to be legal?" I ANSWERED THIS QUESTION - AND ONLY THIS QUESTION: The pistol has to be an original Navy or Artillery luger. The stock has to be an original or exact duplicate. Navy stocks cannot be attached to Artillery lugers; nor vice - versa. Navy stocks are slightly shorter, and a little different shape than an Artillery stock. A pistol with a minimum 16.1" barrel would be ok with a stock, as the barrel length would remove it from the "short" barrel category. The numbered iron on your stock would tend to identify it as an original artillery stock, more/better focused pictures of each side , with a ruler in the picture would help. The stock itself has good value if original, more if marked with the crown/s as shown. It may be very faint on the back side. I believe the holster in your picture is commercial, and not in great shape, so likely not too much value there. The pistol does look to be in good shape, a 1920 commercial type, produced and marked for export likely to the US in the early 1920's. The .30 cal and commercial lugers are not as appealing to most collectors and not valued as highly as a 9mm or military type. I DON'T APPRECIATE YOUR MIS READING AND THEN SAYING i TOLD YOU THAT YOUR PISTOL WAS EITHER A NAVY OR ARTILLERY, I DID NOT, RE-READ ABOVE. iF YOU WOULD KEEP ALL YOUR QUESTIONS IN ONE POST IT WOULD HELP YOU AND EVERYONE ELSE!!! __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie Last edited by DonVoigt; 01-01-2016 at 11:52 PM.

01-01-2016, 11:37 AM	#19
research User Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 34 Thanks: 4 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	ok . so I posted on the navy threads and got this response. lol. back to square one. Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Ron Wood's Avatar Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 5,930 Thanks: 119 Thanked 1,745 Times in 830 Posts Default Chris, It is neither an artillery or navy. It is a 1920 "Alphabet" Commercial, so-called because the "i" is actually part of the serial number (i.e. the serial number of your gun is 7913i). In post-war commercial production the method of serial numbering the commercial guns was changed from the previous 5-digit format to the military style 4-digits and a lower case alphabet character. The Crown over N proof indicates that it is commercial rather than military. It is .30 caliber (7.65mm Parabellum) rather than 9mm. As you have been told in the other thread, the stock is of the artillery configuration and must not be attached to this gun as that is illegal under BATFE rules. Ron __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction Ron Wood is offline Report Post Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message Thanks Unread Today, 10:33 AM #6 research User Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 15 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Default ok that helps. was told on other thread it was navy or artillery. how would one find out the age, where it was made , ball park worth? could anyone recommend a source to find such things out?

01-01-2016, 01:39 PM	#20
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	The stock could have considerable value..let's take a look? __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."