If Winchester 115 white box is not available

[wayne8661]

My local Walmart is sold out of Winchester 115 white box. They do however have Remington 115 and federal 115 will both of these be OK to shoot. If so is there one that would be more preferred over the other.

[rolandtg]

Personally, of the choices available, I would go with Remington.

[DonVoigt]

I prefer Federal over Remington.

I've used Federal in my shooters without problem, equal to the WWB.

Remington I've had was a little shorter in OAL, and did not work as well.

[DonVoigt]

So now you have two opinions, exactly opposite.

Buy a box of each and try them in YOUR luger!

[G.T.]

Hi to all, for those who might not know.... I repair Luger mags for somewhat of a sedate retired hobby? (don't cha think I could have found something else to do! ) And, as a result I spend a lot of time at the range, and at the bench, cycling ammo thru a Luger for the better part of the day, most every day.... Here is what I've found, some lugers will work with many ammo types, some will only work with one type of ammo.... BUT, all of them (if in good shape!) will work with Winchester White box Target Range 115 gr. ball .... It is my ammo of choice for trouble shooting ... If you use WW box T/R ammo, and one of the new style MEC-GAR magazines... That part of the trouble shooting equation is solved! 99 to 100% of the time! (That still doesn't fix the guns problems????) .. I can certainly see a Luger happily gobbling up Remington ammo, but for the most part, it is short, and the OAL can cause feeding issues with just the ammo alone... Lugers are, for the most part, fussy about OAL & just the right amount of energy.. If you hit the correct combo, they run like a top! You can hardly make them quit! Anyway, try several types, but for problem solving, stay with the Win. White Box 115 T/R ammo.... Best to all, til...lat'r....GT....

[wayne8661]

Well I found a box of Winchester 115 white box. Picked up 200 rounds now off to the range!!

[rolandtg]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

I prefer Federal over Remington.
I've used Federal in my shooters without problem, equal to the WWB.

Remington I've had was a little shorter in OAL, and did not work as well.

The only reason I recommended Remington is because I've used it with my '41 mismatched shooter with no issues.
(Using Mec-Gar mags.)
I too prefer the white box Winchester when it's available.

[Eugen]

The good news about Win 115 wb is that it seems to be available about everywhere...and it is relatively inexpensive.

[Zorba]

A lot of people have had good luck with PMC and Blazer as well - including me. Magtech too.

[wayne8661]

Fired about 50 rounds through the old girl today .
Only thing that went wrong was failure to hold open after
Last round on one magazine

[rhuff]

I agree with Zorba in that I have had very good luck with the PMC 115gr FMJ ammo. I have a couple of Lugers that really like this ammo, and the price is right!!!

I always keep WWB and Federal Champion 115gr FMJ available also.

[TheRomanhistorian]

I use Blazer Brass 115 grain and the Federal stuff as I found the Remington OAL only good for my 1970s Luger, bizarrely. My other Lugers don't like it and stovepipe.

[mrerick]

The ammunition and pistol together are a complex system.

Lugers were designed to work the ammunition that the government specified. That is, of course, no longer available.

The bullet shape has changed (truncated cone vs ball); the cartridge case has changed; the primer has changed and the powder itself has changed.

Wear and time has also changed the firing characteristics of our individual pistols.

If you remember back to the Vietnam era, when the US Army introduced a replacement for the M-14 rifle (the M-16) it initially failed and was thought to be an unreliable "bad rifle". It turns out that the ammunition specification was changed making the 5.56mm ammo supplied with the rifles incompatible with them.

From WikiPedia: The M16 and 5.56×45mm cartridge was tested and approved with the use of a DuPont IMR8208M stick powder, that was switched to Olin Mathieson WC846 ball powder which produced much more fouling, that quickly jammed the action of the M16 (unless the gun was cleaned well and often).

This, of course, ended up outside the testing and development specifications of the rifle, and the overall system didn't work properly in the field.

So... what is Winchester White Box 115gn ammo? That is a trade secret. The best guess you can make is that the ammo is made from commonly available Winchester components. That would most probably include W231 (HP-38) pistol powder; Winchester small pistol primers and a Winchester 115gn bullet all loaded to medium level powder load and SAAMI specification OAL.

It's likely that this loading formula somehow approximates the German military loads of WW-I and WW-II (which, of course, varied a great deal over the years).

Other brands of ammo are not "bad", rather they are just different. The most likely differences are in the OAL (which the Luger is sensitive to) and the powder burn rate. I expect that the Luger is sensitive to the cartridge firing pressure impulse in both intensity and in it length and shape.

HP-38 (or W-231 - exactly the same powder) is a relatively fast burning powder with a very short power pressure impulse.

https://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Burn%20R...02015-2016.pdf

The different bullet designs present different gliding surfaces to the barrel which also varies the distribution of the pressure impulse to the Luger mechanism. This is a finely balanced system, and modern locked breech firearm designs are more tolerant to differences in cartridge performance.

My guess is that powder burn characteristics and OAL contribute the most to ammo unreliability in Lugers. Every Luger feels a little different, and they must individually be more or less tolerant to variations in ammo performance.

The advice to try different brands of ammo with individually sensitive pistols is the best advice. We probably need a "reporting" thread to keep a long term record of experiences with different ammo and different era Lugers.

[Zorba]

From what I've been encountering on the 'net, its probably a good idea to avoid PerFecta (Wal-Mart) brand ammo in vintage firearms as its supposedly loaded a little hot. I'll shoot it in my CZ-75BD though!

[jonnyc]

Just got 5 boxes of Perfecta today. Can't recall if I've run any through a Luger, but it has run just fine in any other 9mms I've tried it through.
I had so much trouble with Remington 9x19 and .22lr that I will no longer buy it. I still have a case or two of the 9mm stashed away; hope I never have to use it. Guess I'll keep it for trading fodder to them city folks.

[G.T.]

Hi just got a bunch of NOS UMC and Rem 9mm ammo, both older, but not real old, with Styrofoam trays, and newer, green white boxes with plastic trays. Rem ball, 50 round boxes...... Well, I was going to give the Rem ammo away as it has caused me many, many sleepless nights during drum testing... But, just for the hell of it, I got out my digital calipers and measured a few random samples..... AND,......... Holy crap batman!..... All the yellow box UMC (Remington manufacture) and the yellow and green box Remington in the Styrofoam trays measured the same as the win. White box Target /range ammo?????? The new stuff in the plastic trays measured an average of .050" to .060" shorter in OAL........ THAT'S A LOT! almost 1/16" .... So, now I'm going to have to try the older Rem and see if it works... I'm not too sure about of what all I think I know quite yet?... But, I will find out! Best to all, til....lat'r....GT.....

[Eugen]

Just wanted to report that I found Win WB 115gn on sale at both Gander Mountain and Academy Sports for $25.99 for 100 ct box. I grabbed two boxes.

[kurusu]

Originally Posted by Eugen

Just wanted to report that I found Win WB 115gn on sale at both Gander Mountain and Academy Sports for $25.99 for 100 ct box. I grabbed two boxes.

Just curious. How many rounds in a box?


Edit: Dumb me missed that the first time.

[rhuff]

100 ct.

[DonVoigt]

Somewhat obsolete or obscure US "store keeper or sales" reference:
ct = count , or how many is in the box or container!