Help to ID Police P-08

MAUSER88 · 07-23-2017, 06:11 PM

I have a chance at this one but really know very little about these. I know it's a Schutzpolizei because it has the magazine and sear safety but little else.

Serial number is 7269t. Front grip strap is stamped L.Sch.269.

Chamber and toggle are unmarked. Crown N proof and 7269 on left upper receiver and underside of barrel. Only one proof on the right side of receiver WaA66. Take down lever and side plate are stamped on the underside 69. All matching except the mag.

Firing pin is fluted in the white and unmarked as are the grips.

Any info will be greatly appreciated as I know very little about Prussian Police P-08's.

MAUSER88 · 07-23-2017, 06:12 PM

Few more pics.

Lyn Islaub · 07-23-2017, 06:39 PM

Looks to be a 1929 BKIW manufactured 't' suffix pistol, sometimes referred to as a 'sneak' because of the blank toggle. The unit marking is for the Schleswig-Holstein district Land Jagerei (Rural Police). In Don Maus' book, "History Writ in Steel" that marking is referenced in more detail on page 198.
Lyn

MAUSER88 · 07-23-2017, 06:51 PM

Thanks Lyn. So would this be considered a Simpson rework?

DonVoigt · 07-23-2017, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAUSER88

Thanks Lyn. So would this be considered a Simpson rework?

I'm not Lyn,
but there is no reason to think Simson had anything to do with this pistol.

It is not "Schutzpolizei" but Landjaegeri, as noted on the grip strap by the L. , with Sch. being the location and the number the weapon number.

Nice pistol!

MAUSER88 · 07-23-2017, 07:07 PM

OK Don I was thinking Simpson reworked it by the WaA 66 proof mark. I based that thought on Sam Constanzo's proof mark book which mentions Simpson was associated with that proof.

Lyn Islaub · 07-23-2017, 07:32 PM

Since Costanzo wrote his excellent volume 40 years ago, additional research has determined that the WaA66 proof was an acceptance used on pistols newly manufactured by BKIW. Others will correct me if I'm mistaken, but I believe this proof is found only on pistols with the s, t, or u suffix. BKIW was a private firm that went into P-08 production in the late 1920's using the tooling that the Erfurt Arsenal used during WW1.

MAUSER88 · 07-23-2017, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyn Islaub

Since Costanzo wrote his excellent volume 40 years ago, additional research has determined that the WaA66 proof was an acceptance used on pistols newly manufactured by BKIW. Others will correct me if I'm mistaken, but I believe this proof is found only on pistols with the s, t, or u suffix. BKIW was a private firm that went into P-08 production in the late 1920's using the tooling that the Erfurt Arsenal used during WW1.

OK Very interesting Lyn.

I've never heard of BKIW. Can you please provide more info on the firm?

DonVoigt · 07-23-2017, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAUSER88

OK Very interesting Lyn.

I've never heard of BKIW. Can you please provide more info on the firm?

Perhaps you can check out the FAQ:
http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=13121

Click on the PDF and there is a section on who mfg. lugers.

The mfg. equipment from DWM went via BKIW to Mauser.

The mfg. equipment from Erfurt went to Simson, then to Kreighoff.

The third line of equipment was in Switzerland.

This is all explained in good detail, and there is much more gear info in the FAQ.

Don M · 07-24-2017, 12:57 PM

Consensus is building that these blank toggle pistols were manufactured about 1927-28 and originally intended for the Rif tribesmen in Morocco. You can find more information (perhaps more than you want!) in http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...THE-LATE-1920s and referenced posts.

Lyn Islaub · 07-24-2017, 03:20 PM

OOPs sorry MAUSER88 as I led you astray. The BKIW tooling came from DWM, not Erfurt. A senior moment on my part, I guess, that makes Don's advice even more to the point.There is a wealth of data available to research on this Forum that will answer most all of your questions.
Lyn

stg44fan · 07-25-2017, 04:50 AM

Great looking Luger! Enjoy!

MAUSER88 · 07-25-2017, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyn Islaub

OOPs sorry MAUSER88 as I led you astray. The BKIW tooling came from DWM, not Erfurt. A senior moment on my part, I guess, that makes Don's advice even more to the point.There is a wealth of data available to research on this Forum that will answer most all of your questions.
Lyn

No problem Lyn, I appreciate the reply.

What type of magazine would have been issued with this P-08? It came with a wood bottom what I suspect is a military magazine.

Patrick Sweeney · 10-06-2017, 03:30 PM

Also, the lefthand grip, does that notch at the top indicate a magazine safety? then removed in the past?

sheepherder · 10-06-2017, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Sweeney

Also, the lefthand grip, does that notch at the top indicate a magazine safety? then removed in the past?

The front part was, and the main part of the magazine safety is still in the frame slot (also visible in pic with grip removed).

The sear safety is still riveted in place.

Dwight Gruber · 10-06-2017, 06:22 PM

BKIW was DWM under another name. Nothing else changed.

--Dwight

07-23-2017, 06:11 PM	#1
MAUSER88 Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: NJ Posts: 258 Thanks: 5 Thanked 58 Times in 31 Posts	Help to ID Police P-08 I have a chance at this one but really know very little about these. I know it's a Schutzpolizei because it has the magazine and sear safety but little else. Serial number is 7269t. Front grip strap is stamped L.Sch.269. Chamber and toggle are unmarked. Crown N proof and 7269 on left upper receiver and underside of barrel. Only one proof on the right side of receiver WaA66. Take down lever and side plate are stamped on the underside 69. All matching except the mag. Firing pin is fluted in the white and unmarked as are the grips. Any info will be greatly appreciated as I know very little about Prussian Police P-08's. Attached Thumbnails

07-23-2017, 06:12 PM	#2
MAUSER88 Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: NJ Posts: 258 Thanks: 5 Thanked 58 Times in 31 Posts	Few more pics. Attached Thumbnails

07-24-2017, 12:57 PM	#10
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	Consensus is building that these blank toggle pistols were manufactured about 1927-28 and originally intended for the Rif tribesmen in Morocco. You can find more information (perhaps more than you want!) in http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...THE-LATE-1920s and referenced posts. __________________ Regards, Don [email protected] Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

07-23-2017, 06:39 PM	#3
Lyn Islaub Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 435 Thanks: 3 Thanked 152 Times in 72 Posts	Looks to be a 1929 BKIW manufactured 't' suffix pistol, sometimes referred to as a 'sneak' because of the blank toggle. The unit marking is for the Schleswig-Holstein district Land Jagerei (Rural Police). In Don Maus' book, "History Writ in Steel" that marking is referenced in more detail on page 198. Lyn

07-23-2017, 06:51 PM	#4
MAUSER88 Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: NJ Posts: 258 Thanks: 5 Thanked 58 Times in 31 Posts	Thanks Lyn. So would this be considered a Simpson rework?

07-23-2017, 07:07 PM	#6
MAUSER88 Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: NJ Posts: 258 Thanks: 5 Thanked 58 Times in 31 Posts	OK Don I was thinking Simpson reworked it by the WaA 66 proof mark. I based that thought on Sam Constanzo's proof mark book which mentions Simpson was associated with that proof.

07-23-2017, 07:32 PM	#7
Lyn Islaub Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 435 Thanks: 3 Thanked 152 Times in 72 Posts	Since Costanzo wrote his excellent volume 40 years ago, additional research has determined that the WaA66 proof was an acceptance used on pistols newly manufactured by BKIW. Others will correct me if I'm mistaken, but I believe this proof is found only on pistols with the s, t, or u suffix. BKIW was a private firm that went into P-08 production in the late 1920's using the tooling that the Erfurt Arsenal used during WW1.

07-24-2017, 03:20 PM	#11
Lyn Islaub Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 435 Thanks: 3 Thanked 152 Times in 72 Posts	OOPs sorry MAUSER88 as I led you astray. The BKIW tooling came from DWM, not Erfurt. A senior moment on my part, I guess, that makes Don's advice even more to the point.There is a wealth of data available to research on this Forum that will answer most all of your questions. Lyn

07-25-2017, 04:50 AM	#12
stg44fan User Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Portland OR Posts: 81 Thanks: 42 Thanked 49 Times in 27 Posts	Great looking Luger! Enjoy!

10-06-2017, 03:30 PM	#14
Patrick Sweeney User Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 67 Thanks: 0 Thanked 50 Times in 25 Posts	Also, the lefthand grip, does that notch at the top indicate a magazine safety? then removed in the past?

10-06-2017, 06:22 PM	#16
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,318 Times in 431 Posts	BKIW was DWM under another name. Nothing else changed. --Dwight