Help!!

[SRM]

Greetings all!

I have been around firearms and shooting all of my life, but most of mine are target guns. Today, the janitor walks into my office with a paper bag an asks me what this gun is worth.

Inside was a 1900(?), grip safety, American Eagle Luger, 7.65, 4.75" bbl, SN 75XX all matching, walnut grip, walnut mag floorplate. Over all condition probably 65-70% mainly holster wear. Someone scribed "on" and "off" near the safety, but only a couple of thousands deep.

I told him roughly $1000, +/- but I had to do more research. Am I in the ballpark? Yes he is looking to sell.

[Edward Tinker]

Being an American Eagle, brings the price up for a "shooter". Any Luger damaged, such as the scratches you stated, even if buffed out, would still look wrong and if someone buffed them out and reblued that area, then it would look really odd.

So, it is smarter to leave it as it is. I think, even as an American Eagle, that the price is a bit high. This is a commercial and not a test gun (serial number too high), so I think that the percent of bluing, up/down scratches & caliber, bring the price down, compared to one that was in better shape.

I could be wrong in my guess, but I would think the amount would be $700 or so, but it depends on what the market bears. Normal, reblued Lugers, or damaged, parts mismatched, etc., go from $450 to $600, depending on how well they were "restored" or simply reblued.

Can you provide pictures of it, when he decides to sell? That can give a better indication from people on the forum.

(Be aware, if you don't know, that all matching includes many interior parts also).

[SRM]

Thanks Mr. Tinker!

Yes I can get some digital pics as appropriate. The handgun has 80+ % bluing, I just gave it an overall rating of 65-70% because of the various "shiny" areas and the scratched markings.

All of the internal parts I have looked at so far are matching,but I haven't broken the gun down completely. Based on the ownership presented, I am quite sure it has never been refinished or otherwise modified, but I have been wrong before.

I haven't read the board code for posting pics, but I'll e-mail them to anyone interested.

Thanks!

SRM

[Hugh]

SRM,

A 1900 will have the smooth "dished" toggle knobs, a 1906 will have the later style flat checkered ones. It will make a difference in value; a 1900 is worth more than a 1906 in comparable condition.

[Big Norm]

The guy asked you for an opinion and you gave a pretty good one. If the gun is all matching with an appropriate magazine (sounds like he has one), then your price might be a tad low. 1900's and 1906's were commercial guns so they were better taken care of than war P-08's. So there are quite a few good ones out there. And there isn't such a thing as an exact price. Its all based on the desperation of the seller and the eagerness of the buyer.
Big Norm

[wterrell]

The commercials were also finished and detailed more closely than the later government hardware, because DWM was trying to find a niche in the market and the Luger had to appeal to the civillian buying public who were purchasing a high-end handgun.

[wterrell]

Posting these for Sam.

[Ron Wood]

I see no "GERMANY" export stamp and the serial number puts it in that questionable "above the range" US Test Trial category. If you accept that category, the value might be considerably more than $1000.

[wterrell]

Ron,
Could this be a combination of two commercials? One an AE and the other a domestic commercial? The only item you would need from the AE would be the cannon less the barrel and toggle assembly.
At the point of assembly, you have a rare, out of sequence AE test.
Where is the flaw in my scenerio?
This could be done at both ends of the serial range.
As per the picture, the barrel appears to have been wrenched.

[Johnny Peppers]

Ron and Wes,
I have no record of the GERMANY stamp showing up after the Test Trials pistols serial number range until serial number 7990. The last serial number I have record of without the GERMANY is 7976. My list is certainly not all inclusive, but is is a pretty good sampling of the serial numbers in the 7000 to 8000 serial number range without a single pistol showing up before 7990 with the GERMANY stamp.

[wterrell]

Johnny, then there are no AE tests over the documented range. Thank you.

[Ron Wood]

Wes,
Externally your commercial combination scenario works. Disassembled the number on the recoil lug would give it away (unless altered=faked).

Even though the barrel looks like it has been wrenched, the gun probably is all original and just one of those above-the-range non-GERMANY stamped examples that keep showing up and that Johnny has been recording.

Unless proof positive documentation turns up, these out of range examples may only be postulated as test pieces, and the safe bet remains with the 6100-7100 range.

[Johnny Peppers]

Wes,
There are only a few documented Test Pistols if we are to accept only those pistols whose serial number can be found in the archives of the Ordnance Department. The Bannerman list does not agree with the accepted serial number list as it contains several pistols above the accepted range and most of these are consecutive to the accepted numbers, and serial numbers almost 100 below the accepted list have all the features of the Test Pistols. There is much disagreement as to what is and what is not a Test Pistol, and there are not enough facts at present to make a solid determination that none exist above a certain serial number.

[Ron Wood]

Johnny,
You pretty well sum it up. There is circumstantial evidence for above range Test pistols, just wish there was more documentation to put the matter to rest.

[Big Norm]

The extractor looks a bit funny. Almost like there is a piece of paper jammed toward the back. Could be just the camera angle and lighting. The serial number on the frame and the barrel seem to be different. Hard to tell but the frame is 7554 and the barrel looks like maybe 7502. Could be wrenched but a check of the witness marks would tell. My gut feelings would be that the price would be much lower. Maybe in the $500-600 shooter area. The gun is pretty well worn. Bluing ratings are very subjective but 60-65% seems to be as good a guess as anything else. If my humble opinion is correct, then I would check out its functionability before using live ammo.
Big Norm

[SRM]

OK, maybe I can clear up some physical aspects. The SN is 7554. It appears on the frame and barrel. "54" also appears on the rear of the toggle, below the rear sight and on (what I assume to be) the takedown lever. I thought I saw a small 54 near the feedramp, but it wiped off with a patch (oops!). I have not broken it down, not being familiar with the design. The witness marks between the barrel and frame appear correct (ie original barrel). There is some shiny metal near the rear of the extractor. I would almost guess that it were silver soldered, but that is just a guess. "Straw/off-gold" color appear on the trigger, takedown lever and pin and along each side of the "bolt".

Like I have told some, I have no financial interest in this gun. I'm just trying to help out a friend. If someone is interested, please e-mail me your contact info and I'll pass it along to the owner and let him contact you. It is not my intent to use this site to conduct an auction, but I was looking for info and thought some of you might be interested.

Sam McGeorge [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Edward Tinker]

Sam I left you a personal message. If you aren't familiar with this, you can click on the â??my profileâ?� above and this will allow you to check messages, or e-mail me direct.

[img]smile.gif[/img]

Ed

[SRM]

UPDATE:

OK,I gave all of the contact info to the owner this morning. He was going to e-mail everyone this evening. Hope it works out and lemme know if I can help.

Sam McGeorge