Magazine not feeding properly

meadowlark · 05-28-2019, 05:45 PM

Hi all, I bought some 9mm"snap"caps just to see if my recently acquired 1938 P.08 would load properly. Bottom line - it doesn't! My problem is not knowing if it"s the magazine (it's not the original, the marking doesn't match) or the snap caps. How can one tell?
Also, when activating the toggle I have to keep pressure on the clip in order to lock the toggle in place. does anyone know of a fix for this?
TIA

HerrKaiser · 05-28-2019, 05:50 PM

It could be any one or all of the issues you mentioned. If you have a modern reproduction like a MecGar, try that out to see if any of the above aspects improve. Your hold open and/or hold open spring may also be weak or damaged if it’s not engaging like it should.

DonVoigt · 05-28-2019, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meadowlark

Hi all, I bought some 9mm"snap"caps just to see if my recently acquired 1938 P.08 would load properly. Bottom line - it doesn't! My problem is not knowing if it"s the magazine (it's not the original, the marking doesn't match) or the snap caps. How can one tell?
Also, when activating the toggle I have to keep pressure on the clip in order to lock the toggle in place. does anyone know of a fix for this?
TIA

If you have to keep pressure on the mag to get the hold open to work, it is probably the magazine- or less likely the hold open.

You can always remove the striker/spring/and retainer; and use live rounds to test. Observe all safety precautions just as you would if the striker were still in the pistol.

John Sabato · 05-28-2019, 09:12 PM

IF the magazine sits low in the pistol, it could be that the retention notch is worn and prevents the magazine button from pushing the holdopen high enough for reliably locking back the toggle.

Another critical factor to reliable feeding is the Overall Length of the cartridges you are trying to feed (snap-caps or otherwise).

meadowlark · 05-29-2019, 02:32 PM

Thanks John,
I suspect it's the magazine as you described. Unfortunately, I don't have another magazine to test that assumption. While I know I can buy one over the internet I would prefer trying one that's of the same year and manufacturer as mine. Finding one might be a challenge though!
I measured the snap caps and they appear to be in spec. I'll get some live rounds (remove the firing pin as suggested above) and try it again.

ithacaartist · 05-30-2019, 01:23 AM

Period correctness of a mag indicates nothing about how well it will work. Year and manufacture of mag aren't as important as one's design and condition. You'll want to set originals aside for shooting anyway, because their wood bottoms can break. Italian made MecGar mags are the go-to mags for shooting and cause very few problems.

DavidJayUden · 05-30-2019, 10:07 AM

Also, don't squeeze that very last round into your magazines. They are all more prone to misfeeding when loaded to the max.
dju

Sergio Natali · 05-30-2019, 01:12 PM

In a Luger to use as a "shooter" at the range I would only use a new mag, FWIK "MEC GAR" makes pretty good magazines also for Luger pistols, and are not expensive either.

4 Scale · 05-30-2019, 02:11 PM

When a Luger has a feed and/or hold open issue I agree that the magazine is the best place to start the analysis. Perhaps my most valuable 'tool' for such pistols is a MecGar magazine with a stronger-than-stock spring installed by Gerald Tomek (GT). Often that magazine cures a hold-open or feeding issue, when it doesn't my analysis of the problem moves to non-magazine areas.

Please describe the loading issue in more detail, Lugers can malfunction in more than one way during the loading cycle.

DavidJayUden · 05-30-2019, 02:45 PM

And how about trying it at the range before deciding that there is a problem? Hand cycling snap caps does not replicate how the gun will function loading 115 gr. FMJ rounds.
dju

rhuff · 05-30-2019, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4 Scale

Perhaps my most valuable 'tool' for such pistols is a MecGar magazine with a stronger-than-stock spring installed by Gerald Tomek (GT). Often that magazine cures a hold-open or feeding issue, when it doesn't my analysis of the problem moves to non-magazine areas.
.

This ^^^^^

meadowlark · 05-30-2019, 08:47 PM

Hi all,
I'll try to respond to your replies as best I can.
1- With regards to the problem being the magazine I bought some Remington 9mm Luger .115gr rounds and they worked perfectly after first removing the firing pin. I measured both the snap cap and the live round as best I could (I don't have access to precision measuring tools) and found that the snap cap is a tiny bit thicker. The length is identical.
2- I didn't plan on using this gun on the firing range since it is in a collectable condition and didn't want to take any chances with it. But now I might just fire off a clip or two just to make sure everything is working fine.
3 - I will order the MecGar magazine and use that for the firing test.
Hopefully, I covered your replies and I want to thank all of you for your valuable inputs.

Scottrt · 05-30-2019, 10:17 PM

CDNN Sells new Mauser made Blued extruded magazines for a great price too. I bought a bunch of them from my shooter and they work great.

Scott

meadowlark · 06-03-2019, 09:23 PM

Thanks Scottrt I ordered and received a MecGar magazine yesterday and it loads much better. I really can't see why this magazine pushes the magazine catch much higher than the original but it really does! Locking the toggle is not the problem anymore .I now have a different problem though but I think more my ignorance of Lugers than anything else but may be related to the new magazine pushing the magazine catch much higher. The problem is this - when I cycle the toggle to load a snap cap round in the chamber it locks in the back position. I have to push back a little farther to take pressure off then release the magazine clip. The snap cap remains in the magazine.

meadowlark · 06-06-2019, 07:35 PM

Good point! However, I'm the curious type and wanted to make sure everything worked including firing it.

DonVoigt · 06-07-2019, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meadowlark

Thanks Scottrt I ordered and received a MecGar magazine yesterday and it loads much better. I really can't see why this magazine pushes the magazine catch much higher than the original but it really does! Locking the toggle is not the problem anymore .I now have a different problem though but I think more my ignorance of Lugers than anything else but may be related to the new magazine pushing the magazine catch much higher. The problem is this - when I cycle the toggle to load a snap cap round in the chamber it locks in the back position. I have to push back a little farther to take pressure off then release the magazine clip. The snap cap remains in the magazine.

This makes no sense.

Are you loading the snap cap via the magazine or directly into the chamber?

The magazine can only raise the hold open so far, it is limited by the arm of the hold open connecting with the bottom of the receiver; this is only the case when the pistol is assembled of course.

meadowlark · 06-07-2019, 04:40 PM

Hi Don,

I'm loading the snap caps via the magazine. I think I understand why the confusion. When I said "I really can't see why this magazine pushes the magazine catch much higher than the original" I was checking the original magazine's "hold open" function to the new MecGar magazine hold open function by disassembling the pistol and using just frame portion of the Luger so I'll be able to see the difference when I insert each magazine.

4 Scale · 06-11-2019, 10:07 PM

Snap caps have value in checking some aspects of function, but I have owned pistols that don't cycle snap caps well that function perfectly with live ammo. My default is Winchester White Box 115 gr.; I avoid Remington ammo as I have owned P 08s do not seem to like it.

meadowlark · 06-14-2019, 11:19 AM

Wouldn't you know that I bought some Remington ammo a while back when I was thinking of testing this pistol to make sure everything was working properly. I have since decided not to fire it and just keep it as a collectable. Thanks again for that information re: Remington ammo.

4 Scale · 06-14-2019, 01:19 PM

Lugers can be ammo sensitive. So when troubleshooting any issue relating to FTF/FTE or magazines, for me part of the testing regimen includes trying different ammo. For all I know Remington might work great in some Lugers. My Lugers however seem to have gotten together and decided they don't like it.

05-28-2019, 05:45 PM	#1
meadowlark User Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: Florida Posts: 53 Thanks: 33 Thanked 26 Times in 13 Posts	Magazine not feeding properly Hi all, I bought some 9mm"snap"caps just to see if my recently acquired 1938 P.08 would load properly. Bottom line - it doesn't! My problem is not knowing if it"s the magazine (it's not the original, the marking doesn't match) or the snap caps. How can one tell? Also, when activating the toggle I have to keep pressure on the clip in order to lock the toggle in place. does anyone know of a fix for this? TIA

05-28-2019, 05:50 PM	#2
HerrKaiser User Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: South Carolina Posts: 848 Thanks: 784 Thanked 861 Times in 411 Posts	It could be any one or all of the issues you mentioned. If you have a modern reproduction like a MecGar, try that out to see if any of the above aspects improve. Your hold open and/or hold open spring may also be weak or damaged if it’s not engaging like it should. __________________ -QM Looking for Mauser S/42 toggle train #22

05-28-2019, 09:12 PM	#4
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	IF the magazine sits low in the pistol, it could be that the retention notch is worn and prevents the magazine button from pushing the holdopen high enough for reliably locking back the toggle. Another critical factor to reliable feeding is the Overall Length of the cartridges you are trying to feed (snap-caps or otherwise). __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

05-30-2019, 01:23 AM	#6
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,347 Thanks: 7,285 Thanked 2,579 Times in 1,366 Posts	Period correctness of a mag indicates nothing about how well it will work. Year and manufacture of mag aren't as important as one's design and condition. You'll want to set originals aside for shooting anyway, because their wood bottoms can break. Italian made MecGar mags are the go-to mags for shooting and cause very few problems. __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

05-30-2019, 01:12 PM	#8
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	In a Luger to use as a "shooter" at the range I would only use a new mag, FWIK "MEC GAR" makes pretty good magazines also for Luger pistols, and are not expensive either. __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

05-29-2019, 02:32 PM	#5
meadowlark User Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: Florida Posts: 53 Thanks: 33 Thanked 26 Times in 13 Posts	Thanks John, I suspect it's the magazine as you described. Unfortunately, I don't have another magazine to test that assumption. While I know I can buy one over the internet I would prefer trying one that's of the same year and manufacturer as mine. Finding one might be a challenge though! I measured the snap caps and they appear to be in spec. I'll get some live rounds (remove the firing pin as suggested above) and try it again.

05-30-2019, 10:07 AM	#7
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Also, don't squeeze that very last round into your magazines. They are all more prone to misfeeding when loaded to the max. dju

05-30-2019, 02:11 PM	#9
4 Scale User Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 544 Thanks: 194 Thanked 489 Times in 251 Posts	When a Luger has a feed and/or hold open issue I agree that the magazine is the best place to start the analysis. Perhaps my most valuable 'tool' for such pistols is a MecGar magazine with a stronger-than-stock spring installed by Gerald Tomek (GT). Often that magazine cures a hold-open or feeding issue, when it doesn't my analysis of the problem moves to non-magazine areas. Please describe the loading issue in more detail, Lugers can malfunction in more than one way during the loading cycle. Last edited by 4 Scale; 05-31-2019 at 10:50 AM.

05-30-2019, 02:45 PM	#10
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	And how about trying it at the range before deciding that there is a problem? Hand cycling snap caps does not replicate how the gun will function loading 115 gr. FMJ rounds. dju

05-30-2019, 08:47 PM	#12
meadowlark User Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: Florida Posts: 53 Thanks: 33 Thanked 26 Times in 13 Posts	Hi all, I'll try to respond to your replies as best I can. 1- With regards to the problem being the magazine I bought some Remington 9mm Luger .115gr rounds and they worked perfectly after first removing the firing pin. I measured both the snap cap and the live round as best I could (I don't have access to precision measuring tools) and found that the snap cap is a tiny bit thicker. The length is identical. 2- I didn't plan on using this gun on the firing range since it is in a collectable condition and didn't want to take any chances with it. But now I might just fire off a clip or two just to make sure everything is working fine. 3 - I will order the MecGar magazine and use that for the firing test. Hopefully, I covered your replies and I want to thank all of you for your valuable inputs.

05-30-2019, 10:17 PM	#13
Scottrt User Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: So. Minnesota Posts: 33 Thanks: 20 Thanked 20 Times in 9 Posts	CDNN Sells new Mauser made Blued extruded magazines for a great price too. I bought a bunch of them from my shooter and they work great. Scott

06-03-2019, 09:23 PM	#14
meadowlark User Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: Florida Posts: 53 Thanks: 33 Thanked 26 Times in 13 Posts	Thanks Scottrt I ordered and received a MecGar magazine yesterday and it loads much better. I really can't see why this magazine pushes the magazine catch much higher than the original but it really does! Locking the toggle is not the problem anymore .I now have a different problem though but I think more my ignorance of Lugers than anything else but may be related to the new magazine pushing the magazine catch much higher. The problem is this - when I cycle the toggle to load a snap cap round in the chamber it locks in the back position. I have to push back a little farther to take pressure off then release the magazine clip. The snap cap remains in the magazine.

06-06-2019, 07:35 PM	#15
meadowlark User Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: Florida Posts: 53 Thanks: 33 Thanked 26 Times in 13 Posts	Good point! However, I'm the curious type and wanted to make sure everything worked including firing it.

06-07-2019, 04:40 PM	#17
meadowlark User Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: Florida Posts: 53 Thanks: 33 Thanked 26 Times in 13 Posts	Hi Don, I'm loading the snap caps via the magazine. I think I understand why the confusion. When I said "I really can't see why this magazine pushes the magazine catch much higher than the original" I was checking the original magazine's "hold open" function to the new MecGar magazine hold open function by disassembling the pistol and using just frame portion of the Luger so I'll be able to see the difference when I insert each magazine.

06-11-2019, 10:07 PM	#18
4 Scale User Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 544 Thanks: 194 Thanked 489 Times in 251 Posts	Snap caps have value in checking some aspects of function, but I have owned pistols that don't cycle snap caps well that function perfectly with live ammo. My default is Winchester White Box 115 gr.; I avoid Remington ammo as I have owned P 08s do not seem to like it.

06-14-2019, 11:19 AM	#19
meadowlark User Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: Florida Posts: 53 Thanks: 33 Thanked 26 Times in 13 Posts	Thanks for the advice Wouldn't you know that I bought some Remington ammo a while back when I was thinking of testing this pistol to make sure everything was working properly. I have since decided not to fire it and just keep it as a collectable. Thanks again for that information re: Remington ammo.

06-14-2019, 01:19 PM	#20
4 Scale User Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 544 Thanks: 194 Thanked 489 Times in 251 Posts	Lugers can be ammo sensitive. So when troubleshooting any issue relating to FTF/FTE or magazines, for me part of the testing regimen includes trying different ammo. For all I know Remington might work great in some Lugers. My Lugers however seem to have gotten together and decided they don't like it.