cocking problem

[contact148]

IM in the process of acquiring my 1st luger don't own one yet can get this one for a few pretty cheap but I want it to work!

Guy at my club has a ww1 1917? IIRC all matching except side plate and magazine is missing (story was it got hidden then lost/forgotten because of kids) he got a side plate (sarco) we installed it and the gun is not cocking every single time

with snap caps, action open drop a round in chamber pull toggle release and NOT cocked 95% of the time. BUT load from magazine it cocks 99.9% of the time

Gun is clean and oiled trigger bar plunger is free and works IE trigger pulled work toggle release trigger gun "fires"

I'm pretty sure its side plate related but cant be sure how do you make sure side plate fits correctly? ive seen that they need to be "fitted" plate is tight on gun trigger moves trigger bar when pulled. seems to me the firing pin is not being held by the trigger bar every time nothing looks worn don't think this was shot much

we have not shot it yet hopefully this weekend if he is able

thanks

[Edward Tinker]

It likely is the sideplate, it could be something else

how much are they asking?

What kind of condition is it?

pictures?

[contact148]

I can get it for less then $500.00


very good condition a few small not deep rust dots everything matches except side plate and toggle pin is un-numbered no mag either but he got some mec gar mags

no pics I don't have the gun


for the price Ill buy it even if its not working 100% But I like my things to work

[DonVoigt]

Unless you are handy, have luger repair experience, and have more luger parts than most folks, I would not buy a luger that does not work correctly.
You could easily spend another $200 on it and still have reliability problems.

[contact148]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

Unless you are handy, have luger repair experience, and have more luger parts than most folks, I would not buy a luger that does not work correctly.
You could easily spend another $200 on it and still have reliability problems.

fair enough

I am handy

No luger experience

NO luger parts

[Edward Tinker]

Originally Posted by contact148

fair enough

I am handy

No luger experience

NO luger parts

I am handy

I have luger experience

I have lots of parts

Is it cheap? Or is it like $500 - $600 or more?

[contact148]

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

I am handy

I have luger experience

I have lots of parts

Is it cheap? Or is it like $500 - $600 or more?

it is cheap asking $500.00 probably get it for $300-350


I don't mind tinkering with something the money I might need to spend on it is not an issue I have a rather large collection of m1 grands and carbine's

the issue is I'm not familiar with how these parts are supposed be "fitted" and how/when they all work together as the pistol cycles, could be something very simple like maybe the trigger bar and firing pin are worn or have been messed with at some point. I know this pistol has not been fired for 30-40 years I've known the owner of it for 20+ years

for me getting parts will be the PITA I have to order and that takes a while, at least with my Garands/carbines I can grab a known working rifle off my rack and swap parts till it works and I have a ton of NOS parts for those

[DonVoigt]

for me getting parts will be the PITA I have to order and that takes a while, at least with my Garands/carbines I can grab a known working rifle off my rack and swap parts till it works and I have a ton of NOS parts for those

I think you have answered your own question. Ordering a single luger part, especially the side plate, sear bar, trigger lever, or striker (all of which work together to kock), does not mean they will fit your pistol or work together correctly.

I've built half a dozen shooters or so in the last 6 months, one or two fell together with minimal effort, a couple took two hours or more to make them work, one took 6 hours and drove me nuts.

And I had a good supply of parts to pick and choose and swap!

Luger tolerances and function are not as "cut and dried" as a garand and the carbine is so simple most anyone can assemble one. The parts are/were made to be truly interchangeable. Lugers were hand fit and the pieces numbered for a reason.

If you want to learn and cost is no object - go for it.

[mrerick]

The Luger trigger linkage is a unique and moderately complex design.

The trigger on Lugers requires hand fitting - even at the factories where they were manufactured.

it takes time, understanding of the relationship of the parts and a level of experience before you can reliably adjust a Luger trigger and replace parts.

The Sarco part is not likely to be properly fit as you received it, and there are any number of small detailed adjustments that it might need to properly operate the Luger.

This is not a job for an amateur gunsmith, or an experienced gunsmith that is unfamiliar with the Luger trigger linkage, it's design and it's fitting.

You'll probably be tempted to make adjustments on a number of the parts, all of which will impact the operation of the rest f the parts. You can mistakenly adjust or attempt to bend (and break) hardened parts that should not be altered.

The fact that much of the mechanism is hidden when in operation makes visualizing what's actually happening difficult.

There are very few experienced Luger gunsmiths in the world that can competently install and adjust the parts of a Luger trigger mechanism. If you try and damage parts, replacements can be found but they are expensive and sometimes difficult to connect with.

But, your results may vary. If you're buying it to save money you may be disappointed. If you're buying it for a month or year long project and learning experience (without the absolute expectation of a functioning shooter Luger at the end) it may be just the thing for you.

[Lugerdoc]

C148, As said above LUGER PARTS ARE NOT INTERCHANGEABLE. If in fact, your striker (FP) is cocking on your sear (trigger bar) but not releasing when the trigger is pulled, it's possible that you have too much overlap of these parts, but more likely, the trigger LEVER (inside the side plate) is not correctly chamfered at the top for the disconnector plunger (in the trigger BAR) to push under it on recoil. Too bad that you're not in the USA, so that I could take a look at it, but I know that their are many PO8 collectors in Canada, that would be willing to assist. TH

[contact148]

Originally Posted by Lugerdoc

C148, As said above LUGER PARTS ARE NOT INTERCHANGEABLE. If in fact, your striker (FP) is cocking on your sear (trigger bar) but not releasing when the trigger is pulled, it's possible that you have too much overlap of these parts, but more likely, the trigger LEVER (inside the side plate) is not correctly chamfered at the top for the disconnector plunger (in the trigger BAR) to push under it on recoil. Too bad that you're not in the USA, so that I could take a look at it, but I know that their are many PO8 collectors in Canada, that would be willing to assist. TH

Lugerdoc

If it co-cks the trigger works 100% of the time it seems that many times if the toggle is locked open and I drop a dummy into the chamber and release the toggle it will NOT coc-k BUT if I were to pull the toggle just enough to bend the joint it co-cks every time


Im hoping to meet him this weekend and try shooting it maybe it will work when fired I had a garand that wouldn't feed right with dummies but never failed while shooting it

Thanks for the input and advice

[Lugerdoc]

It sounds as though your firing pin is not cocking on the sear when the toggle is released, so one of those parts will have to be replaced by your gunsmith for best results. I can sent those parts to Canada for cost + $15 S&H. TH

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by contact148

Lugerdoc

If it co-cks the trigger works 100% of the time it seems that many times if the toggle is locked open and I drop a dummy into the chamber and release the toggle it will NOT coc-k BUT if I were to pull the toggle just enough to bend the joint it co-cks every time


Im hoping to meet him this weekend and try shooting it maybe it will work when fired I had a garand that wouldn't feed right with dummies but never failed while shooting it

Thanks for the input and advice

Do clean and lubricate before you head to the range.

[Edward Tinker]

here is an example - I traded for about 8 breechblocks and got 2 firing pins with them (I have others), but the point is, that without modification, one of the firing pins would slip in easily in about a quarter (so 2) and another 2 or 3 would go in and out but with 'drag' and at least two, wouldn't work at all - and these are ALL original breechblocks.

[tomaustin]

Viagra...

[contact148]

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

here is an example - I traded for about 8 breechblocks and got 2 firing pins with them (I have others), but the point is, that without modification, one of the firing pins would slip in easily in about a quarter (so 2) and another 2 or 3 would go in and out but with 'drag' and at least two, wouldn't work at all - and these are ALL original breechblocks.

that amazes me how were they able to produce so many if most needed a bunch of hand fitting the time and labour

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by contact148

that amazes me how were they able to produce so many if most needed a bunch of hand fitting the time and labour

The process was more likely a "select" fit, they had scores of new pieces to fit together.
Some then needed a final hand fitting, but not all.
JMHO.

[contact148]

Ok bit of an update

I decided to spend the day at the owner of this pistols house

only part NOT matching is the repro side plate we added as orig was missing

insert mag 1 dummy round action open cycle toggle firing pin wont co-ck (would slam fire if live)

side plate off same drill 30 times co-cks every time

remove trigger bar and pin same drill firing pin will NOT co-ock most times IE slam fire if live. so now I know its the plate and not the trigger parts,

used a marker to colour the inside of side plate re-install same drill remove side plate see its rubbing the sear so I file the side plate, sear channel a bit do the marker and try again takes a few tries but now it co-cks every single time I did it 100 times all is well hope to try a live fire tomorrow hand is now sore working that toggle

[DonVoigt]

You have a sound analytic approach, but it is highly likely the trigger lever -sear bar-trigger interaction will need attention and adjustment/replacement also.

[HerrKaiser]

Do be careful with the test tomorrow. I would load only one at a time, and no more than 2 or 3 at a time, in case of unexpected and uncontrollable full auto that may stem from the issues you've been describing. Best of luck.