Help identify: Luger 1906 Commercial 9mm

[briskspirit]

Hi guys!

I am new to this forum and also to owning old guns. Always was a fan of modern ones (except always wanted 1911 from 20-30s)

Few days ago I've bought my first Luger without prior "home work"... That was an impulse buy as I liked it (And bought it for less than what I see on GunBroker)

So after I examined it what I found:

Early 1906 Commercial BUG proofed 9mm (should be made 1906-1907?)

Serial numbers:
bottom of the barrel(full) - OK
front of the frame(full) - OK
breechblock (lower left side) - OK
extractor (bottom) - OK
front toggle link (bottom) - OK
rear toggle link (back) - OK
receiver(rear) - OK
side plate (bottom edge) - OK
takedown lever (bottom) - OK
trigger (top left) - OK
grip safety (under grip) - OK
magazine(NO serial) - OK


All proof marks seems on place.

So I ask for your help to check it and also opinion what to do next? :
1. It is fake/ it is dead - make a good shooter from it as it has no any value(change barrel)
2. Good enough sample, pretty scarce. Just clean it and keep it.
3. Between dead and collectible - restore it.
4. Your option

Also in your opinion how much it worth? I don't plan to sell it but rather want to understand if I paid too much

Thank you!

[briskspirit]

Few more photos:

[Dwight Gruber]

Sn 49491 is 10,000 numbers past the beginning of commercial P08 production, so likely dates from late-1909--early-1910. Definitely refinished, certainly adequate for shooting. Replacing the barrel on an all-matching Luger is a controversial act. Shoot it, you might find that it is more accurate than the barrel condition would lead you to believe.


--Dwight

[Major Tom]

I've owned a 9mm luger with a really bad case of frosted bore. But, it was very accurate!

[briskspirit]

Originally Posted by Dwight Gruber

Sn 49491 is 10,000 numbers past the beginning of commercial P08 production, so likely dates from late-1909--early-1910. Definitely refinished, certainly adequate for shooting. Replacing the barrel on an all-matching Luger is a controversial act. Shoot it, you might find that it is more accurate than the barrel condition would lead you to believe.


--Dwight

By Luger book it should be between 1906-1908.. or I am wrong? (Also no more than 4000 were produced in 9mm)

And also I thought that later BUG was changed for BU only.

[Dwight Gruber]

Originally Posted by briskspirit

By Luger book it should be between 1906-1908...

Which book please?


--Dwight

[Ron Wood]

"Luger" is John Walter's book.
Ron

[briskspirit]

Originally Posted by Dwight Gruber

Which book please?


--Dwight

Standard Catalog of Luger by Aarron Davis

Quote from the book:
QUANTITY MADE
3,500 to 4,000 in 9mm Parabellum
SERIAL NUMBER RANGE: 25050 to 69000.

Some combination of this set of marks was
used on commercial Luger production starting
in 1900 and proceeding through the 1906
pattern guns. The crown/B and crown/U
indicated the actual proof, while the crown/G
is thought to indicate a rifled barrel. Later
the crown/G was dropped, with the other two
marks being applied sideways

Also here (lugerforum.com) there is a proof mark page with the same info about BUG and BU. That's why I thought it should be one of the early productions.

P.S.:
With all respect I am not arguing, I am trying to understand As I am getting obsessed with Lugers now and reading about each proof mark - so interesting!

[briskspirit]

Gathering opinions on what should I do with that rust? CLP oil + 0000 steel wool? Or something heavier?

How do you think what it's worth? (Prior to corona virus )

What would you do if you've got that particular gun?

[DavidJayUden]

Are you certain that the grooves in the barrel are not simply full of lead stripped off of passing lead bullets.
dju

[briskspirit]

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

Are you certain that the grooves in the barrel are not simply full of lead stripped off of passing lead bullets.
dju

No, I am not.. Right now trying Wipe Out for 24 hours and after that will try Hoppe's.

[Doubs]

Originally Posted by briskspirit

No, I am not.. Right now trying Wipe Out for 24 hours and after that will try Hoppe's.

If it is lead, a jag such as those made by Parker-Hale wrapped with a tight wad of medium steel wool will remove the lead easily enough. Use it from the chamber end, of course.

Steel wool is MUCH softer than barrel steel and WILL NOT harm your bore. You will clearly see the lead streaks that have been removed on the steel wool.

[Dwight Gruber]

Originally Posted by briskspirit

Standard Catalog of Luger by Aarron Davis

Davis's "Standard Catalog" is full of misinformation and errors, and cannot be trusted by someone without Luger knowledge.

The serial number range quoted is approximately correct, although there are other variations witnin that range.

DWM's production archives are not to be found. Any estimate of commercial variation production is meaningless guesswork.

The c/B, c/U, c/G proof information is in wrong. This proof suite was in use from the beginning of Parabellum production in 1900 to 1912, when it was replaced by the c/N nitro proof. c/B and c/U are always found stamped sideways on the left receiver. They are also found stamped on the breechblock. c/G without question indicates a rifled barrel, and is always found there with the other two marks. This protocol was established by the German proof law of 1891.

My estimation of date of production--and it is assuredly only an estimate--is based on extensive serial number reporting of New Model variations correlated with the date of the German army's acceptance of the P08 and its subsequent commercial production.

The comprehensive Luger library approaches 50 volumes. I recommend two books to you: "The Luger Book" by John Walter; and "Lugers At Random" by Charles Kenyon. Walters's book is fairly encyclopedic, and succeeds where Davis fails. Kenyon's book is over forty years old (and is therefore obsolete in some details), but it is still the only single-volume overview of Luger collector variations.

The best, most up-to-date information on everything Luger is to be found in this forum and Jan Still's Luger Forum https://luger.gunboards.com/activity.php.

--Dwight

[Geo99]

Originally Posted by briskspirit

How do you think what it's worth? (Prior to corona virus )

What does coronavirus have to do with the price of Lugers?

If you want to know if you overpaid, tell us what you paid for it.

What it's worth is going to vary a lot depending on if the barrel is really shot out or just clogged.

- Geo

[Ron Wood]

Walter wrote 2 books, "Luger" in 1977 and "The Luger Book" in 1986. Since the reference "The Luger book..." in post #5 just said the single word "Luger" I incorrectly assumed it was Walters first book. I am in total agreement that the Davis book is a minefield for individuals with limited Luger experience.
Ron

[briskspirit]

Originally Posted by Geo99

What does coronavirus have to do with the price of Lugers?

If you want to know if you overpaid, tell us what you paid for it.

What it's worth is going to vary a lot depending on if the barrel is really shot out or just clogged.

- Geo

I've paid $700 for it and seems that barrel was shot out

[briskspirit]

Dwight and Ron, thank you for explanation! Will buy "The Luger Book" today and forget about Davis for now.

[Lugerdoc]

Due to the heavy polishing and hot dip refinish, I feel that it is matching and early proofed is immaterial, so just a shot out 9mm shooter. If it functions reliably, $700 is a fair price in todays market. TH

[Mac Cat]

I'd love to see the bore after you have cleaned it good !
Let us know how it shoots, too.

[briskspirit]

Originally Posted by Mac Cat

I'd love to see the bore after you have cleaned it good !
Let us know how it shoots, too.

Here it is after cleaning. Wipe Out 12 hours - cleaned, 12 hours more - cleaned. A lot of blue colored goo(copper).