1906 Portuguese Question

[Fla.Mallard]

Legacy has a 1906 Portuguese Luger with no M2 seal over the chamber. Has this been scrubbed?

I thought all of the army 1906 were M2.













Please school me on Portuguese Lugers.

[Ron Wood]

Yes, it has been scrubbed. Too bad, it is a nice looking gun.
Ron

[Fla.Mallard]

Thanks for the verification.
Am I correct the army 1906 Portuguese Lugers are all M2? Also, when did Portugal stop using the triangle designation on Lugers?

[Doubs]

While Gortz & Sturgess call the Portuguese Army Lugers M/1908, the Portuguese designated them as the M/909 meaning that they were adopted in 1909. They are all long frame of the 1906 pattern. They have their own serial number range of 1 ~ 5000 and were marked over the chamber with the Crown and intertwined M2 for King Manuel II.

When Manuel II was overthrown and a republic established, the Portuguese scrubbed the chambers on some - but not all - of their Lugers having the C/M2 impression. It appears that yours was one of the scrubbed ones.

The C/M2 was done with two different stamps; an early one and another after about serial number 3000. Yours would have been the early type.

[kurusu]

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

Yes, it has been scrubbed. Too bad, it is a nice looking gun.
Ron

It's a curious fact. Most if not all scrubbed M2s are in good condition. Mine is.






And I'm still to find out who did the scrubbing and why.

[Doubs]

I've owned two Portuguese M2 Lugers, serial numbers 2088 & 3518. I gave the first one to my son. Both are in good - not great - condition but all matching and with correct magazines. One has a perfect bore while the other is a bit worn. Below is #3518.

[Ron Wood]

Here is the manual for the M2 Portuguese.
Ron

[Fla.Mallard]

I have an M2 rig in very good condition but would like to collect all variations of Portuguese Lugers (except scrubbed ones).

I know of the GNR ones and there is supposed to be a version only identified by the serial # but in general I am ignorant concerning Portuguese Lugers.

[Doubs]

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

Here is the manual for the M2 Portuguese. Ron

Ron, the manual you show appears to have been printed in Portugal. According to various sources including Kenyon and Walter, the official designation by Portugal for the M2 is M/909. That would follow the pattern of their previous and later designations of M/904 for their 1904 Vergueiro in 6.5x58mm which was reworked by Mauser in 1939 and became the M904/39 in 8mm. Their last Luger contract with Mauser in 1943 was designated as the M/943. The first Navy Luger version was M/910.

Does the manual illustrate the new model or the old model?

I have to wonder if Gortz & Sturgess' designation for the M2 of M/1908 was taken from the manual?

[Ron Wood]

Originally Posted by Fla.Mallard

I have an M2 rig in very good condition but would like to collect all variations of Portuguese Lugers (except scrubbed ones).

I know of the GNR ones and there is supposed to be a version only identified by the serial # but in general I am ignorant concerning Portuguese Lugers.

I used to have a mint GNR, a little later than my collecting emphasis therefore traded off for something else, but I still have two "Royal" Portuguese. The M2 isn't too hard to find but the Royal Navy is a real booger to track down.

[Ron Wood]

Originally Posted by Doubs

Ron, the manual you show appears to have been printed in Portugal. According to various sources including Kenyon and Walter, the official designation by Portugal for the M2 is M/909. That would follow the pattern of their previous and later designations of M/904 for their 1904 Vergueiro in 6.5x58mm which was reworked by Mauser in 1939 and became the M904/39 in 8mm. Their last Luger contract with Mauser in 1943 was designated as the M/943. The first Navy Luger version was M/910.

Does the manual illustrate the new model or the old model?

I have to wonder if Gortz & Sturgess' designation for the M2 of M/1908 was taken from the manual?

Walker,
My manual is a bit of an enigma. Although it has yellowed a bit with age and the paper is a bit brittle it is virtually "mint" as in never issued! The pages are as they came from the printer, 14 pages printed on a single sheet of paper with each page printed on the sheet so that they appear in proper order and orientation when the sheet is folded into book format. The odd thing with this manual is that after the single sheet was folded the edges of the pages were not slit so that they opened out for regular viewing! So it is necessary to peek in at the ends of the unfolded sides to see the individual pages. Some folks have encouraged me to go ahead and cut the pages, but I'm not going to do it...it is what it is.

To get back to your question, the illustrations are of the new model except for one barrel/receiver/toggle drawing that shows the toggles as the dished old model type. That is the only drawing on the 11 plates at the end of the manual that is not of a new model configuration.

I can't explain the apparent discrepancy in model designation from what you have explained. The manual was printed/issued 5 May 1909 but every model reference in the manual is M/1908.
Ron

[Doubs]

Ron, thank you. That is a really interesting manual and I think you made the correct decision to leave it as-is.

WRT the model designation, I wonder if the manual was written and published before the Portuguese gave the pistol an official model number?

No matter. I have an affinity for the 1906 models whatever they're called. They are all beautifully made.

Walker

[LU1900]

Ron , about the manual , is it the one I send to USA ?

[Ron Wood]

Originally Posted by LU1900

Ron , about the manual , is it the one I send to USA ?

Patrice,
It could be. I have been looking for my purchase record but I cant find it, so I can't confirm where I got it and my memory isn't up to the task.
Ron