Semi-Collectibles/Collectible Shooters?

HerrKaiser · 01-18-2021, 12:27 PM

I am sure many of us have at least 1 Luger with some sort of flaw that diminishes overall collectible value but does not always send it straight to "shooter" status. Such as:
-An all matching gun that has a swath of "blood pitting", finish rash, or no finish (like my 1920 5 digit Commercial pictured here below)
- An all matching pistol with original, but 50% or poorer overall finish remaining.
- VOPO/Russian Capture reworks (which seem to be a growing niche)
- British Proofed guns
-Alphabet commercials in general

-Perhaps an outlier to the above ones, but an otherwise nice pistol that has a side plate, takedown lever, grips, or firing pin mismatch.

How do you all classify these types of pistols that I am trying to describe in your own collections?

DonVoigt · 01-18-2021, 01:28 PM

They are all "collectible" to someone; I have a small "collection" of shooters.

"- VOPO/Russian Capture reworks (which seem to be a growing niche)
- British Proofed guns
-Alphabet commercials in general" are all collectible areas to more than a few guys.

An unusual unit marking or scarce variation could make an otherwise "shooter" into a
collectible for me- if only for a space holder till an upgrade comes along.

JMHO.

HerrKaiser · 01-18-2021, 02:12 PM

Correct, I just know that many seem to view alphabet commercials as shooter grade guns unless in mint condition due to their commonality.

The heart of this question is about all matching guns in original, but poor, finish. Or those with spots of pitting, finish loss, or finish rash. And guns with mismatched grips, side plates, firing pins and the like.

gunbugs · 01-18-2021, 03:11 PM

In my opinion, a mismatched sideplate makes the gun a pure shooter. Finish problems, such as rust or minor/moderate pitting,on an otherwise all matching gun, is not as significant, and would still retain it's collectible "status".

Norme · 01-18-2021, 03:39 PM

It all depends on rarity. Any mismatched part on a relatively common gun would, I agree, reduce it to shooter status. It's quite another story for a really rare and desirable gun. 1904 Navy #61 sold hammer down for $115.000 at R.I.A. back in 2012, it had a mis-matched side-plate among other issues.
Norm

Dwight Gruber · 01-18-2021, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HerrKaiser

...I just know that many seem to view alphabet commercials as shooter grade guns unless in mint condition due to their commonality...

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...light=Alphabet

--Dwight

Edward Tinker · 01-18-2021, 04:45 PM

I think that #2 and #3 are very close - and simply terms we use interchangeability.

But, as said above, there is a difference in what gun it is. I happily paid $2,000 for a import marked Simson 1925 (it also used to belong to a good friend of mine).

I think some people are idiots for paying what they do, and others a smart move, and I don't judge you for what you think is cool. A friend of mine once bought a very nice, 2 matching mag, early DWM for about $3500 - at the time folks thought he was crazy - I thought him a very smart collector.

Heinz · 01-18-2021, 05:04 PM

I have always noted that the alphabet commercials seemed to be manufactured to very high standards. The downside is the rarity of the 7.65 ammunition, but now it is cheaper and easier to find than 9mm. I like the caliber, I remember the first time I shot a woodchuck with a hollow point.

HerrKaiser · 01-18-2021, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

I think that #2 and #3 are very close - and simply terms we use interchangeability.

Ed, I always saw a Low End Collectible as a placeholder type status that I still would not want to shoot, but a semi-collectible as one that is too unique to shoot regularly but not one that I would be afraid to run a magazine or 2 through from time to time at the range.

Edward Tinker · 01-18-2021, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HerrKaiser

Ed, I always saw a Low End Collectible as a placeholder type status that I still would not want to shoot, but a semi-collectible as one that is too unique to shoot regularly but not one that I would be afraid to run a magazine or 2 through from time to time at the range.

I can live with that

mrerick · 01-19-2021, 03:32 PM

The Luger that I shoot is a finish challenged 1937 Mauser that is all matching, and mechanically fine.

It has pitting and finish damage on the left side of the frame, barrel, side plate and receiver. Apart from that, it would probably be a mid range collectible.

Vlim · 01-19-2021, 04:10 PM

My former shooter (I stopped shooting due to health issues) was a nice 1937 P08 that got the VoPo treatment and was refurbished by a german outfit in the mid-90s. A nice looker, reliable but not 'original' any more.

When I retired from shooting, it went into the collection with its 1990s box and manual. It's not out of place there.

Proofed · 01-21-2021, 01:57 PM

My shooter is matching except for side plate and mag. I bought the chrome plated1942 byf at an auction for 400 bucks without the side plate, The one on it now is a self fitted repop that works like a charm. this pistol rarely skips a beat. A pleasure to have and to hold and shoot.

Doubs · 01-21-2021, 02:26 PM

This is one of my shooters, an Alphabet commercial in .30 caliber that someone had nickel plated. It's proven to be reliable and has an excellent trigger.

The target was shot at 18 yards; two full mags.

Edward Tinker · 01-21-2021, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proofed

My shooter is matching except for side plate and mag. I bought the chrome plated1942 byf at an auction for 400 bucks without the side plate, The one on it now is a self fitted repop that works like a charm. this pistol rarely skips a beat. A pleasure to have and to hold and shoot.

I once bought a fluid / paste that will put a nickel finish on something - you could do that for your sideplate. Its not perm at all

DonVoigt · 01-21-2021, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

I once bought a fluid / paste that will put a nickel finish on something - you could do that for your sideplate. Its not perm at all

I think the "fluid/paste" is called "paint".

Seriously, a can of "chrome" spray paint would make that side plate
a close "match".

Proofed · 01-23-2021, 03:28 PM

thanks for the suggestions i plan on polishing the plate but just havn't got around to it yet

Sergio Natali · 01-25-2021, 11:53 AM

I don't claim expertise at all but I have been studying and collecting firearms for quite a few decades now, and I think that the field is really broad. In the years I made quite a few big mistakes that I still regret, especially if you collect more than say two o three different types of guns, you need a lot of knowledge and experience not to mention money since generally you get what you pay for, so if you want a good "collectible" piece you shouldn't be afraid of opening your wallet.
I collected Lugers for a few years, and I think they are probably one of the most difficult types of guns to collect, due to their numerous variations, I still believe that top collectible Lugers can only be collected by top collectors.

To me a handgun can be considered a collectible only if it has these four qualities:
a) Scarcity: it's a rare item
b) Historical Significance: played some role in history
c) 100% Original: modified or customized will lose value and sometimes aren't even good shooters.
d) Condition: at least "fairly good"

YMMV

View Poll Results: How do you consider the Lugers I described above?
Normal Collector grade guns	2	13.33%
Low End Collectibles	5	33.33%
Collectible Shooters/Semi-Collectibles	6	40.00%
High End Shooters	1	6.67%
Pure Shooters/Useful for parts as needed	1	6.67%
Voters: 15. You may not vote on this poll

01-18-2021, 12:27 PM	#1
HerrKaiser User Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: South Carolina Posts: 848 Thanks: 784 Thanked 861 Times in 411 Posts	Semi-Collectibles/Collectible Shooters? I am sure many of us have at least 1 Luger with some sort of flaw that diminishes overall collectible value but does not always send it straight to "shooter" status. Such as: -An all matching gun that has a swath of "blood pitting", finish rash, or no finish (like my 1920 5 digit Commercial pictured here below) - An all matching pistol with original, but 50% or poorer overall finish remaining. - VOPO/Russian Capture reworks (which seem to be a growing niche) - British Proofed guns -Alphabet commercials in general -Perhaps an outlier to the above ones, but an otherwise nice pistol that has a side plate, takedown lever, grips, or firing pin mismatch. How do you all classify these types of pistols that I am trying to describe in your own collections? Attached Thumbnails __________________ -QM Looking for Mauser S/42 toggle train #22

01-18-2021, 03:11 PM	#4
gunbugs Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Fairbanks, Alaska. Home of the best moose. Posts: 659 Thanks: 365 Thanked 1,178 Times in 394 Posts	In my opinion, a mismatched sideplate makes the gun a pure shooter. Finish problems, such as rust or minor/moderate pitting,on an otherwise all matching gun, is not as significant, and would still retain it's collectible "status". Last edited by gunbugs; 01-18-2021 at 06:50 PM.

01-19-2021, 03:32 PM	#11
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,909 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,510 Posts	The Luger that I shoot is a finish challenged 1937 Mauser that is all matching, and mechanically fine. It has pitting and finish damage on the left side of the frame, barrel, side plate and receiver. Apart from that, it would probably be a mid range collectible. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

01-19-2021, 04:10 PM	#12
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	My former shooter (I stopped shooting due to health issues) was a nice 1937 P08 that got the VoPo treatment and was refurbished by a german outfit in the mid-90s. A nice looker, reliable but not 'original' any more. When I retired from shooting, it went into the collection with its 1990s box and manual. It's not out of place there. Attached Thumbnails

01-18-2021, 01:28 PM	#2
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,441 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	They are all "collectible" to someone; I have a small "collection" of shooters. "- VOPO/Russian Capture reworks (which seem to be a growing niche) - British Proofed guns -Alphabet commercials in general" are all collectible areas to more than a few guys. An unusual unit marking or scarce variation could make an otherwise "shooter" into a collectible for me- if only for a space holder till an upgrade comes along. JMHO. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

01-18-2021, 02:12 PM	#3
HerrKaiser User Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: South Carolina Posts: 848 Thanks: 784 Thanked 861 Times in 411 Posts	Correct, I just know that many seem to view alphabet commercials as shooter grade guns unless in mint condition due to their commonality. The heart of this question is about all matching guns in original, but poor, finish. Or those with spots of pitting, finish loss, or finish rash. And guns with mismatched grips, side plates, firing pins and the like. __________________ -QM Looking for Mauser S/42 toggle train #22 Last edited by HerrKaiser; 01-18-2021 at 03:35 PM.

01-18-2021, 03:39 PM	#5
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	It all depends on rarity. Any mismatched part on a relatively common gun would, I agree, reduce it to shooter status. It's quite another story for a really rare and desirable gun. 1904 Navy #61 sold hammer down for $115.000 at R.I.A. back in 2012, it had a mis-matched side-plate among other issues. Norm

01-18-2021, 04:45 PM	#7
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,033 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	I think that #2 and #3 are very close - and simply terms we use interchangeability. But, as said above, there is a difference in what gun it is. I happily paid $2,000 for a import marked Simson 1925 (it also used to belong to a good friend of mine). I think some people are idiots for paying what they do, and others a smart move, and I don't judge you for what you think is cool. A friend of mine once bought a very nice, 2 matching mag, early DWM for about $3500 - at the time folks thought he was crazy - I thought him a very smart collector.

01-18-2021, 05:04 PM	#8
Heinz User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Greenville SC Posts: 1,004 Thanks: 377 Thanked 410 Times in 180 Posts	I have always noted that the alphabet commercials seemed to be manufactured to very high standards. The downside is the rarity of the 7.65 ammunition, but now it is cheaper and easier to find than 9mm. I like the caliber, I remember the first time I shot a woodchuck with a hollow point.

01-21-2021, 01:57 PM	#13
Proofed User Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: Pa. Posts: 157 Thanks: 535 Thanked 338 Times in 90 Posts	the shooter My shooter is matching except for side plate and mag. I bought the chrome plated1942 byf at an auction for 400 bucks without the side plate, The one on it now is a self fitted repop that works like a charm. this pistol rarely skips a beat. A pleasure to have and to hold and shoot. Attached Thumbnails

01-21-2021, 02:26 PM	#14
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,698 Thanks: 792 Thanked 1,687 Times in 554 Posts	This is one of my shooters, an Alphabet commercial in .30 caliber that someone had nickel plated. It's proven to be reliable and has an excellent trigger. The target was shot at 18 yards; two full mags.

01-23-2021, 03:28 PM	#17
Proofed User Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: Pa. Posts: 157 Thanks: 535 Thanked 338 Times in 90 Posts	side plate thanks for the suggestions i plan on polishing the plate but just havn't got around to it yet

01-25-2021, 11:53 AM	#18
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	I don't claim expertise at all but I have been studying and collecting firearms for quite a few decades now, and I think that the field is really broad. In the years I made quite a few big mistakes that I still regret, especially if you collect more than say two o three different types of guns, you need a lot of knowledge and experience not to mention money since generally you get what you pay for, so if you want a good "collectible" piece you shouldn't be afraid of opening your wallet. I collected Lugers for a few years, and I think they are probably one of the most difficult types of guns to collect, due to their numerous variations, I still believe that top collectible Lugers can only be collected by top collectors. To me a handgun can be considered a collectible only if it has these four qualities: a) Scarcity: it's a rare item b) Historical Significance: played some role in history c) 100% Original: modified or customized will lose value and sometimes aren't even good shooters. d) Condition: at least "fairly good" YMMV __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.