Artillery Luger ID

Alan1 · 03-17-2021, 02:32 PM

Hi.
I hope someone can help in identifying this artillery luger I have just received.
- It has no date stamp.
- It has the DWM marking on top.
- It does not look like it has been re-furbished?
- It has matching number components except for the rear sights.
- The only proof marking I can see is a crown over N on the left side just in front of the serial number and on top of the breach just next to the extractor lever.
- I suspect it could be a commercial version, but from what I have read, they do not have the fine adjustment to the sights. This one has fine adjustment on both back and front sights

Doubs · 03-17-2021, 03:03 PM

Your Artillery Luger has been reworked. It began as a military issue Luger and in all likelihood it was reworked post-WW1. It has been refinished and the date scrubbed. The crown/N shows that it was proved for civilian use after being reworked.

It has the fine tune front and rear sights which means it is likely a 1915 or 1916. In 1917 the fine tune sights were eliminated although some were made early in that year with fine tune rear sights. I'm not sure when the fine tune front sight was dropped but it was sometime prior to the rear sight being simplified.

Is there a letter suffix below the serial number on the front of the frame?

Edward Tinker · 03-17-2021, 03:33 PM

As an FYI - when these were scrubbed by the factory, it is almost impossible to tell. That said, to have a crown N on the left and no marking son the right, it makes me think that it was left over parts, but officially put together and sold by DWM to other markets.

Close up of right and left of the receiver would help, but either theory and likely Doubs is the correct one....

George Anderson · 03-17-2021, 04:51 PM

The crown/N proofs are 1930s Suhl proofs.

lugerholsterrepair · 03-18-2021, 01:22 AM

Does it have GERMANY stamped anywhere?
- It does not look like it has been re-furbished? UMMM...Yes it does. VERY much so. There are NO strawed parts on it.

Dwight Gruber · 03-18-2021, 01:41 AM

The right receiver acceptance and proof stamps have been removed. The strawed small parts have been blued. This pistol has assuredly been refinished.

--Dwight

Alan1 · 03-18-2021, 03:44 AM

Thank you, greatly appreciate your replies and comments.
I must apologize (I am still quite new to the Luger game), when I said "not re-furbished" I was thinking in terms of just re-blued. I did not think of factory reworked. What Doubs says makes sense to me.
There is what looks like the letter "n" below the serial number on the front of the frame. I will post a photo if I can.
I can't see any other markings on left, or right of the receiver. I will post photos if I can
There is no "GERMANY" stamped anywhere.

DonVoigt · 03-18-2021, 11:27 AM

Refinished for sure, and not by a "factory" or arsenal - the receiver and frame show extensive rounding of what should be sharp edges- which is how/why there are no markings.

The serial number on the front of the frame is nearly "polished" away.

The fine tune rear sight continued to show up even into 1918, and perhaps 1/4 to 1/2 of the 1917 dated artilleries had a fine tune front sight- with or without a fine tune rear.

The fine tuning was quite likely eliminated due to cost/time saving efforts, and the fact that after the original sighting in when produced- the sights would not likely have need adjusting thereafter.

After all, the ammo assigned for their military use did not change- not like we swap around sources today. JMHO

03-17-2021, 02:32 PM	#1
Alan1 User Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Bela-Bela, South Africa Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 38 Times in 7 Posts	Artillery Luger ID Hi. I hope someone can help in identifying this artillery luger I have just received. - It has no date stamp. - It has the DWM marking on top. - It does not look like it has been re-furbished? - It has matching number components except for the rear sights. - The only proof marking I can see is a crown over N on the left side just in front of the serial number and on top of the breach just next to the extractor lever. - I suspect it could be a commercial version, but from what I have read, they do not have the fine adjustment to the sights. This one has fine adjustment on both back and front sights Attached Thumbnails

03-17-2021, 03:33 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	As an FYI - when these were scrubbed by the factory, it is almost impossible to tell. That said, to have a crown N on the left and no marking son the right, it makes me think that it was left over parts, but officially put together and sold by DWM to other markets. Close up of right and left of the receiver would help, but either theory and likely Doubs is the correct one.... __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

03-18-2021, 01:22 AM	#5
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Does it have GERMANY stamped anywhere? - It does not look like it has been re-furbished? UMMM...Yes it does. VERY much so. There are NO strawed parts on it. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

03-18-2021, 03:44 AM	#7
Alan1 User Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Bela-Bela, South Africa Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 38 Times in 7 Posts	Thank you, greatly appreciate your replies and comments. I must apologize (I am still quite new to the Luger game), when I said "not re-furbished" I was thinking in terms of just re-blued. I did not think of factory reworked. What Doubs says makes sense to me. There is what looks like the letter "n" below the serial number on the front of the frame. I will post a photo if I can. I can't see any other markings on left, or right of the receiver. I will post photos if I can There is no "GERMANY" stamped anywhere. Attached Thumbnails

03-18-2021, 11:27 AM	#8
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,442 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	Refinished for sure, and not by a "factory" or arsenal - the receiver and frame show extensive rounding of what should be sharp edges- which is how/why there are no markings. The serial number on the front of the frame is nearly "polished" away. The fine tune rear sight continued to show up even into 1918, and perhaps 1/4 to 1/2 of the 1917 dated artilleries had a fine tune front sight- with or without a fine tune rear. The fine tuning was quite likely eliminated due to cost/time saving efforts, and the fact that after the original sighting in when produced- the sights would not likely have need adjusting thereafter. After all, the ammo assigned for their military use did not change- not like we swap around sources today. JMHO __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

03-17-2021, 03:03 PM	#2
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,700 Thanks: 792 Thanked 1,692 Times in 555 Posts	Your Artillery Luger has been reworked. It began as a military issue Luger and in all likelihood it was reworked post-WW1. It has been refinished and the date scrubbed. The crown/N shows that it was proved for civilian use after being reworked. It has the fine tune front and rear sights which means it is likely a 1915 or 1916. In 1917 the fine tune sights were eliminated although some were made early in that year with fine tune rear sights. I'm not sure when the fine tune front sight was dropped but it was sometime prior to the rear sight being simplified. Is there a letter suffix below the serial number on the front of the frame?

03-17-2021, 04:51 PM	#4
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,529 Times in 787 Posts	The crown/N proofs are 1930s Suhl proofs.

03-18-2021, 01:41 AM	#6
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,318 Times in 431 Posts	The right receiver acceptance and proof stamps have been removed. The strawed small parts have been blued. This pistol has assuredly been refinished. --Dwight