newbie trying to date a 1917 DWM

[fuzidave]

I inherited a Luger from my uncle.

so on the front there is a 3 digit serial number with the DWM script on the top. and on all the small parts, I see the last 2 digits stamped here and there.

but on the barrel; on top it says 1917. on the opposite side, is a different 4 digit serial number.

so, as i understand it, the barrel is made in 1917.

is there any way to date the rest of the pistol?

thanks for the help.

[spangy]

Hi fuzidave to the forum.

A picture is worth 1000 words AND


With pics the experts here will be able to analyze your gun and present you with a wealth of information on it.

You can also learn a lot about a lot at the FAQ Page http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=13121
Its advisable to give that a read as well as purchasing Luger Books if you are going to be a serious collector.

Most of all HAVE FUN... the members here are great people and you won't find a more selfless bunch anywhere.

ENJOY

[fuzidave]

thanks. yes, i'll post pics when i get a chance.

[fuzidave]

ok. maybe chalk this up to being a total noob. here's what i see...

on the front is 751. i see 51 stamped here and there.

now on the barrel, on the right side i see the stamp.
on the top i see 1917.
on the left i see 751.
and on the bottom of the barrel, i see 3826m.

it's that 4 digit number that throws me.

[mrerick]

Your Luger is constructed from multiple donor Lugers, so the actual assembly date can never be determined.

I can't make out the suffix letter under the 751 on the front of the frame, so can't tell you the approximate period the frame was made. Unfortunately the receiver may also have been renumbered so it might not be during 1917. Better lighting and focus would help. Note that the suffix letters were repeated during Luger manufacturing.

Your Luger is refinished, and the barrel is from another donor pistol. If the receiver was renumbered too it came from a different donor pistol than the frame. The receiver looks like it might have been renumbered.

[Doubs]

The receiver with the 1917 date was made by DWM and left the factory as an Artillery model with an 8 inch barrel. At some point - likely the 1920's but really could have been any time after WW1 - the Artillery barrel was removed, possibly to satisfy the Treaty of Versailles restrictions. A short barrel was found and installed and the rear toggle link replaced as the Artillery Luger rear toggle would not have a sight on it.

The parts being replaced and the refinish put your Luger in the "shooter" category and if the bore is good, it should be a fine shooter.

[Edward Tinker]

It wasn't one I put together I have bundled them up several times, if they work great, if they don't, they get sold as parts

Above advice was spot on, so no need for me to blab on

[Mac Cat]

Welcome to the Forum !

Just taking pictures is a challenge!
I think you did pretty good.

A war weapon with mixed parts is very common. There were a lot of reasons for which we can only guess. It's not worth a lot to a collector, but it should mean a lot to you because it came from a family member. That's how a lot of us became collectors in the first place.

[fuzidave]

thanks for the good info Doubs

Our theory was Great Uncle John, who was in WWI, brought it back. But that doesn't sound like that is the case now. Grandpa was an avid gun collector, so maybe he got it somewhere.

Here are two more pics of the front. I still can't make out the thing under the 751.

Speaking of a rear site, there doesn't seem to be one. Or am I mistaken.

Finally, since a 9mm fits snugly in the barrel, is it safe to say this gun is a 9mm?

[Edward Tinker]

It is likely 9mm, but unsure do a cast of the chamber, or take it to a gunsmith.
Its not a 7.65mm luger, as that whole tip would go inside.

The suffix under the serial number was placed there every 10,000 lugers (each year), so assume 140,000 were made, then 1-9999, then 1a etc - its explained in the FAQ

[fuzidave]

Right. I understand about the suffix. I just can’t make out what it is. It almost looks like an upside down 2.

[spangy]

Originally Posted by Doubs

The receiver with the 1917 date was made by DWM and left the factory as an Artillery model with an 8 inch barrel.

I also believe this gun started life as an artillery ... this explains the lack of a rear sight.

fuzidave - "Speaking of a rear site, there doesn't seem to be one. Or am I mistaken."

You are not mistaken - the rear site on an Artillery Luger is ahead of the breech block owing to its 8" barrel.

As for the suffix letter, I believe this gun has been badly messed with and who knows what that mark is or why.

JMHO - Don't shoot the messenger + I reserve the right to be wrong.

[lugerholsterrepair]

To determine caliber, take a standard yellow office pencil. If it will insert into the barrel erasure first it will be 9MM. If it will not, it is .30

[Doubs]

From your pictures it appears that the rear toggle link wasn't replaced as I don't see a rear sight. It still has the original Artillery rear toggle link.

The suffix letter is almost certainly an e.

Below is an Artillery Luger and you can see where the rear sight is mounted and why one on the rear toggle link was not necessary. Below that is a rear sight on the rear toggle link for shorter barrel Lugers.

[spangy]

Originally Posted by Doubs

The suffix letter is almost certainly an e.

OK I can see where your getting an e from.




But then my concern is why is the 'e' so big ?? ... its as big as the serial #'s ??

Again ... don't shoot the messenger ... I am just trying to figure this thing out.