Are There Holes In Both Carbine Stocks

cirelaw · 05-28-2021, 09:52 PM

and why! ARE THEY IN BOTH?? 1902 AND 1920 MODELS~ ERIC~PLEASE!

cirelaw · 05-28-2021, 10:08 PM

I have had years to ponder these holes and there obviously no reason to lighten the stock by a few ounces! I just need to know if the 1902 version has the same? I need to know first!!! Eric, Esq.

lugerholsterrepair · 05-29-2021, 11:26 AM

Eric, My original 1902 carbine stock has the 3 lightening holes.

cirelaw · 05-29-2021, 01:01 PM

I figured it out!!! both had holes to hold and secure the wooden stock during machining shape!!! Both models do proves it!! Thats why there are holes drilled in the end of wood to secure and prevent rotation during shaping and final finishing!

cirelaw · 05-29-2021, 03:40 PM

When or Where did the theory to Lighten by hole began? I have been a member for close to twenty years and have now idea where the rumor first began! The carbine is already ten times heavier than the stock! Why lighten it even more! Myth Busters!

m1903a3 · 05-29-2021, 05:08 PM

Walnut is heavy, drilling three really big holes will noticeably reduce the weight and perhaps improve the balance.

In any event, they most certainly are not holes for a fixture. Stocks are turned on a Blanchard (duplicating) lathe like this one in the Gun Shop at Harpers Ferry in Virginia. The lathe turns a blank to match a pattern. This one dates to the mid 19th century, but other than being powered by something other than big leather belts I doubt modern ones are much different.

I have a large collection of Rifle-Muskets whose stocks were made on lathes like this and they have no holes.

cirelaw · 05-29-2021, 06:12 PM

How much added weight do you it estimates it saves? Would a few ounces have any effect on overall performance?

cirelaw · 05-30-2021, 11:19 AM

After an article on Land Of Bourchardt, I must concede the holes were also used to lighten the stock also! Why, I don't know!!! https://www.landofborchardt.com/10008-chilean.html

Sonofeugene · 05-30-2021, 07:36 PM

Or it's simply an alternative way to hold onto the stock while forming it. There's always more than one way to skin a cat and I believe this is one of them. As others have pointed out, the material removed is simply too small to make a significant weight reduction.

cirelaw · 05-30-2021, 08:40 PM

I agree with you they may have served 2 or more purposes as they were used in both models years apart!!!

Kiwi · 05-31-2021, 09:38 AM

The British .303 had a hole in the butt plate to hold cleaning materials: small oil bottle, pull through, and cloth patches.

cirelaw · 05-31-2021, 10:09 AM

These are too small in diameter to store anything worth while and there are three instead of one larger~ I tried my Swiss Luger Tool and doesn't fit either due to the fluted brass screw end!!

cirelaw · 05-31-2021, 10:39 AM

Leave It To The Swiss!

cirelaw · 05-31-2021, 02:00 PM

After the first world war, heavy restrictions applied by the allies to Germany. During the Weimar Republic DWM was forced to refurbish prior parts which would be refinished to highest quality for sales on the international markets~ Many are marked "GERMANY" My 1920 carbine is unique as it has and additional rear toggle sight whereas most carbines don't! I have never seen another! It was pictured on the cover of the book, 'Luger Tips' and the picture I posted where one can see the rear sight~! Its the same carbine as I purchased it from the late Ralph Shattuck over twenty years ago! He provided the luger pictures throughout the book and cover I posted!~ Eric

cirelaw · 05-31-2021, 04:04 PM

The loss of a few ounces of wood really have no effect! Less than a full magazine of ammo. Will test to make sure!l

wlyon · 05-31-2021, 04:15 PM

Many stocks on featherweight rifles were drilled to reduce weight. It may not be much but it all makes a difference. Bill

cirelaw · 05-31-2021, 05:20 PM

This week we are professionally weighing loaded and unloaded to see if a full load of 9mm shells affect the center of gravity!

ithacaartist · 05-31-2021, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cirelaw

This week we are professionally weighing loaded and unloaded to see if a full load of 9mm shells affect the center of gravity!

Be sure to attach and weigh the rig with a snail drum as well!

cirelaw · 05-31-2021, 06:35 PM

It adds weight to the mag foward!. Nothing to the stock end!

ithacaartist · 05-31-2021, 06:59 PM

Eric, et al, if we had the diameter and depth of the holes, the weight of the walnut that was eliminated would provide an idea of how much--or little- weight was eliminated.

05-28-2021, 09:52 PM	#1
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Are There Holes In Both Carbine Stocks and why! ARE THEY IN BOTH?? 1902 AND 1920 MODELS~ ERIC~PLEASE! Attached Images

05-29-2021, 11:26 AM	#3
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Eric, My original 1902 carbine stock has the 3 lightening holes. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

05-29-2021, 01:01 PM	#4
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	I figured it out!!! both had holes to hold and secure the wooden stock during machining shape!!! Both models do proves it!! Thats why there are holes drilled in the end of wood to secure and prevent rotation during shaping and final finishing! Attached Thumbnails

05-29-2021, 05:08 PM	#6
m1903a3 User Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Virginia Posts: 198 Thanks: 26 Thanked 315 Times in 112 Posts	Walnut is heavy, drilling three really big holes will noticeably reduce the weight and perhaps improve the balance. In any event, they most certainly are not holes for a fixture. Stocks are turned on a Blanchard (duplicating) lathe like this one in the Gun Shop at Harpers Ferry in Virginia. The lathe turns a blank to match a pattern. This one dates to the mid 19th century, but other than being powered by something other than big leather belts I doubt modern ones are much different. I have a large collection of Rifle-Muskets whose stocks were made on lathes like this and they have no holes. Attached Thumbnails __________________ - Mike Life member: NRA, OVMS, VGCA Member: NAPCA, N-SSA(Veteran) Si vis pacem, para bellum Last edited by m1903a3; 05-30-2021 at 04:56 AM.

05-30-2021, 08:40 PM	#10
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	I agree with you they may have served 2 or more purposes as they were used in both models years apart!!! Attached Thumbnails

05-28-2021, 10:08 PM	#2
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	I have had years to ponder these holes and there obviously no reason to lighten the stock by a few ounces! I just need to know if the 1902 version has the same? I need to know first!!! Eric, Esq.

05-29-2021, 03:40 PM	#5
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	When or Where did the theory to Lighten by hole began? I have been a member for close to twenty years and have now idea where the rumor first began! The carbine is already ten times heavier than the stock! Why lighten it even more! Myth Busters!

05-29-2021, 06:12 PM	#7
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	How much added weight do you it estimates it saves? Would a few ounces have any effect on overall performance?

05-30-2021, 11:19 AM	#8
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	After an article on Land Of Bourchardt, I must concede the holes were also used to lighten the stock also! Why, I don't know!!! https://www.landofborchardt.com/10008-chilean.html

05-30-2021, 07:36 PM	#9
Sonofeugene User Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 157 Thanks: 1 Thanked 118 Times in 64 Posts	Or it's simply an alternative way to hold onto the stock while forming it. There's always more than one way to skin a cat and I believe this is one of them. As others have pointed out, the material removed is simply too small to make a significant weight reduction.

05-31-2021, 09:38 AM	#11
Kiwi User Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: Wrong side of the Delaware river Posts: 307 Thanks: 215 Thanked 435 Times in 172 Posts	The British .303 had a hole in the butt plate to hold cleaning materials: small oil bottle, pull through, and cloth patches.

05-31-2021, 10:09 AM	#12
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	These are too small in diameter to store anything worth while and there are three instead of one larger~ I tried my Swiss Luger Tool and doesn't fit either due to the fluted brass screw end!!

05-31-2021, 10:39 AM	#13
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Leave It To The Swiss! Attached Images

05-31-2021, 02:00 PM	#14
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	After the first world war, heavy restrictions applied by the allies to Germany. During the Weimar Republic DWM was forced to refurbish prior parts which would be refinished to highest quality for sales on the international markets~ Many are marked "GERMANY" My 1920 carbine is unique as it has and additional rear toggle sight whereas most carbines don't! I have never seen another! It was pictured on the cover of the book, 'Luger Tips' and the picture I posted where one can see the rear sight~! Its the same carbine as I purchased it from the late Ralph Shattuck over twenty years ago! He provided the luger pictures throughout the book and cover I posted!~ Eric Attached Images

05-31-2021, 04:04 PM	#15
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	The loss of a few ounces of wood really have no effect! Less than a full magazine of ammo. Will test to make sure!l

05-31-2021, 04:15 PM	#16
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,636 Thanks: 3,174 Thanked 2,559 Times in 955 Posts	Many stocks on featherweight rifles were drilled to reduce weight. It may not be much but it all makes a difference. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

05-31-2021, 05:20 PM	#17
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	This week we are professionally weighing loaded and unloaded to see if a full load of 9mm shells affect the center of gravity!

05-31-2021, 06:35 PM	#19
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Good Point I Did And Have A Picture! It adds weight to the mag foward!. Nothing to the stock end! Attached Images

05-31-2021, 06:59 PM	#20
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,347 Thanks: 7,285 Thanked 2,579 Times in 1,366 Posts	Eric, et al, if we had the diameter and depth of the holes, the weight of the walnut that was eliminated would provide an idea of how much--or little- weight was eliminated. __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894