G&S Luger volumes

jeb111 · 07-09-2021, 10:34 AM

I have the green covered G&S volumes but from what I gather from here on the forum the later red covered volumes are better. Why? And are there any glaring mistakes in the green volumes that I should be aware of? I really get a lot out of them although I never read them cover to cover, use more as reference material. I don’t even remember where I got them or what I paid they didn’t come with the DVD’s but I’ve had them awhile. Would it be better to sell them and get the red covered volumes or is the differences minimal?
Jim

mrerick · 07-09-2021, 11:34 AM

The Red cover version, published by Simpson, was later and had minor updates. It was also organized and edited as G&S wanted it to be.

I don't own the Green cover set, so cannot compare them as far as their utility goes. I do find the PDF copy in the Simpson set quite useful, and carry it in my tablet a gun shows.

Mac Cat · 07-09-2021, 11:43 AM

The original set (Green) was published in 2010.
The second set (Red) was published in 2011.

The second set has completely re-organized and reduced the number of chapters to the point it is almost impossible to compare the two book sets. The second version also has additional material, although I could not tell you what is new.

The second (red) set also shipped with two CDs, which were not in the original (green) set.
The CD's came in individual cases, but there are two CD pockets to store them in the back of the volume 1. I think that the CD's are the additional content.

Norme · 07-09-2021, 01:31 PM

I have both sets and much prefer the original “green” set. It’s printed on better paper, has clearer illustrations and lies flat when opened. In all the time I have owned them I have only come across one illustration in the “red” set that could be described as new. My advice, get the CD from Simpson’s, it costs $20 and change.
Norm
P.S. Whoever designed the slipcase for the “red” set should have his hands cut off! It’s impossible to remove a single volume when the set is in a packed bookcase.

Vlim · 07-09-2021, 01:45 PM

The Swiss section has some corrections and updates. I supplied the information after studying the green edition.

I find it impossible to get the green books from their slip case.

sheepherder · 07-09-2021, 02:12 PM

There has been much discussion of the two sets here, a Search would be beneficial. IIRC, it was said that one of the authors disagreed with the editing (?) of the green set, and that the red set was more in line with the author's wishes. Again, a Search will turn up more on this subject, here.

Major Tom · 07-10-2021, 08:58 AM

I once had the 'green set'. The amount of info would make you dizzy!

spangy · 07-10-2021, 01:17 PM

I have the 'Green set' which I find invaluable ... it's a
Deluxe 3-Volume slip-cased First Edition, 2010
2,014 pages, 1,917 illustrations, most in color

https://www.collectorgrade.com/bookshelf3.html

The exhaustive Index in the back of Volume III directs the reader to over 50 specific entries under the heading "Fakery".
Simply a must have for Luger Collectors IMHO

jeb111 · 07-11-2021, 10:50 PM

Good to hear the green covered edition is not much different content wise but I think I will take Norm’s advice and get the cd’s, I think they would be helpful. I do get a lot out of these books and refer to them constantly.
Jim

Edward Tinker · 07-11-2021, 11:44 PM

I bought the set when it first came out, and when Simpson redid it, I bought one - I much prefer the Red version, simply because the editor liked to make comments and moved things around that irritated Sturgess, which I understand. I find that sturgess moved things to me better, but both books are amazing - although mistakes are found in every book, and he liked to use his guns rather than any body else, which I believe leads to a slightly myopic view of the variations. This is not uncommon in writing, because you need to do that to an extent - it was a reason that Dwight and I asked for examples from other collectors, to include a section on magazines (input from Don Hallock), section on tools (input by Col Lindsey) and other experts.

The main thing I didn't like about Sturgess is that he didn't add anything from Simson Lugers - we had up to dated information, and he simply ignored it. No idea why, perhaps he doesn't like my writing style (or Grahams)

and it was the same publisher that did our book?

Ron Wood · 07-12-2021, 01:14 AM

I know I am being petty, but the thing that irks me a bit is that what the first printing (green) had that was completely omitted from the second version (red) is the acknowledgement of contributors. My Russian manual was featured and labeled "courtesy Ron Wood" as were acknowledgements of other folks that provided materials...not so in the red books.
Ron

07-09-2021, 10:34 AM	#1
jeb111 Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: May 2018 Location: wyoming Posts: 277 Thanks: 712 Thanked 331 Times in 133 Posts	G&S Luger volumes I have the green covered G&S volumes but from what I gather from here on the forum the later red covered volumes are better. Why? And are there any glaring mistakes in the green volumes that I should be aware of? I really get a lot out of them although I never read them cover to cover, use more as reference material. I don’t even remember where I got them or what I paid they didn’t come with the DVD’s but I’ve had them awhile. Would it be better to sell them and get the red covered volumes or is the differences minimal? Jim

07-09-2021, 11:34 AM	#2
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,909 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,510 Posts	The Red cover version, published by Simpson, was later and had minor updates. It was also organized and edited as G&S wanted it to be. I don't own the Green cover set, so cannot compare them as far as their utility goes. I do find the PDF copy in the Simpson set quite useful, and carry it in my tablet a gun shows. __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

07-09-2021, 02:12 PM	#6
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,183 Thanks: 1,400 Thanked 4,442 Times in 2,330 Posts	There has been much discussion of the two sets here, a Search would be beneficial. IIRC, it was said that one of the authors disagreed with the editing (?) of the green set, and that the red set was more in line with the author's wishes. Again, a Search will turn up more on this subject, here. __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

07-10-2021, 08:58 AM	#7
Major Tom User Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: S.E. Iowa Posts: 484 Thanks: 533 Thanked 227 Times in 124 Posts	I once had the 'green set'. The amount of info would make you dizzy! __________________ I Build Custom Pistol Boxes

07-10-2021, 01:17 PM	#8
spangy Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Winnipeg, Canada Posts: 617 Thanks: 3,065 Thanked 1,057 Times in 429 Posts	I have the 'Green set' which I find invaluable ... it's a Deluxe 3-Volume slip-cased First Edition, 2010 2,014 pages, 1,917 illustrations, most in color https://www.collectorgrade.com/bookshelf3.html The exhaustive Index in the back of Volume III directs the reader to over 50 specific entries under the heading "Fakery". Simply a must have for Luger Collectors IMHO __________________ Whoever said that "money can't buy you happiness" never bought a Luger. WTB - Take Down Lever & Trigger Plate (#90) for an Imperial Artillery.

07-09-2021, 11:43 AM	#3
Mac Cat Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 731 Thanks: 2,095 Thanked 610 Times in 329 Posts	The original set (Green) was published in 2010. The second set (Red) was published in 2011. The second set has completely re-organized and reduced the number of chapters to the point it is almost impossible to compare the two book sets. The second version also has additional material, although I could not tell you what is new. The second (red) set also shipped with two CDs, which were not in the original (green) set. The CD's came in individual cases, but there are two CD pockets to store them in the back of the volume 1. I think that the CD's are the additional content.

07-09-2021, 01:31 PM	#4
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	I have both sets and much prefer the original “green” set. It’s printed on better paper, has clearer illustrations and lies flat when opened. In all the time I have owned them I have only come across one illustration in the “red” set that could be described as new. My advice, get the CD from Simpson’s, it costs $20 and change. Norm P.S. Whoever designed the slipcase for the “red” set should have his hands cut off! It’s impossible to remove a single volume when the set is in a packed bookcase.

07-09-2021, 01:45 PM	#5
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	The Swiss section has some corrections and updates. I supplied the information after studying the green edition. I find it impossible to get the green books from their slip case.

07-11-2021, 10:50 PM	#9
jeb111 Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: May 2018 Location: wyoming Posts: 277 Thanks: 712 Thanked 331 Times in 133 Posts	Good to hear the green covered edition is not much different content wise but I think I will take Norm’s advice and get the cd’s, I think they would be helpful. I do get a lot out of these books and refer to them constantly. Jim

07-11-2021, 11:44 PM	#10
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,033 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	I bought the set when it first came out, and when Simpson redid it, I bought one - I much prefer the Red version, simply because the editor liked to make comments and moved things around that irritated Sturgess, which I understand. I find that sturgess moved things to me better, but both books are amazing - although mistakes are found in every book, and he liked to use his guns rather than any body else, which I believe leads to a slightly myopic view of the variations. This is not uncommon in writing, because you need to do that to an extent - it was a reason that Dwight and I asked for examples from other collectors, to include a section on magazines (input from Don Hallock), section on tools (input by Col Lindsey) and other experts. The main thing I didn't like about Sturgess is that he didn't add anything from Simson Lugers - we had up to dated information, and he simply ignored it. No idea why, perhaps he doesn't like my writing style (or Grahams) and it was the same publisher that did our book?

07-12-2021, 01:14 AM	#11
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,178 Times in 1,703 Posts	I know I am being petty, but the thing that irks me a bit is that what the first printing (green) had that was completely omitted from the second version (red) is the acknowledgement of contributors. My Russian manual was featured and labeled "courtesy Ron Wood" as were acknowledgements of other folks that provided materials...not so in the red books. Ron __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction