Kriegsmarine Dagger???

Dubar · 07-14-2021, 08:31 AM

Somebody on here has to know something about German daggers so here goes.

This is a naval dagger that, according to my wife and mother-in-law (both deceased) was "acquired" by one of my MILs brothers during WW2.

When I got it the portapee had already been cut off and the grip is severely cracked. Dagger has some pitting as well.

I purchased a new portapee from a fellow in Germany, but have not attempted to put it on (who tied that thing on anyway?!?!?!).

Now I want to put a new replacement grip on it, I'll keep the original parts but it's just begging to be replaced with one that is not cracked.

I've found them on line, but not sure what color to get. Is this one yellow or orange?

I tried joining a German Dagger forum this morning but it keeps saying it doesn't recognize my password, I'll give it a while to see if it finally lets me in.

Anyway, what color grip should I get? This would make a great display piece with my recently acquired Luger!

The stamp reads Carl Eickhorn Solingen.

sheepherder · 07-14-2021, 10:04 AM

I would not attempt to replace the original grip. The dagger loses its provenance if you do. It would no longer be original.

lugerholsterrepair · 07-14-2021, 12:19 PM

I second that sage advice! You have the advantage of seeing the knot as it is tied still on this dagger. It's a trick for sure..I have done it several times. As with most things, take your time. BUT..I might seriously consider leaving it as is too...

Dubar · 07-14-2021, 01:19 PM

I'll probably leave it as is, but I'd still like to get a grip that's not cracked and along with the portapee I bought, leave them in the bag for future generations.

Wish I knew the story about why the portapee got whacked in the first place.

I have several "artifacts" from my wife's family. Her dad's uniform and Bronze Star (he was a medic in the Phillipines), one of her uncles (may be the one who got the dagger) was captured, have the letter from the War Dept. Her aunt was an officer nurse and I have a number of items she got from Japan and Germany. One item is a cooling looking beer stein, a head wearing a beenie. I'll have to post a photo of that. Often wonder how much that is worth.

Got a photo album of her dad's that has photos of his outfit and locals, one of them holding the severed heads of Japanese soldiers.

Dubar · 07-14-2021, 01:34 PM

Here's the stein. Kinda creepy looking.

Made In Germany printed in ink on the bottom, along with some numbers (a 4, a 6, and a 26) embedded in the mug. There's also a stamp that looks to read Hoehr Handgemabt and maybe a H with a crown on top. I'll take photos of the bottom later.

lugerholsterrepair · 07-14-2021, 01:39 PM

Your dagger is AUTHENTIC as is. Your efforts to IMPROVE it will NOT. It came to you being this way for 80 years...Removing the grip will likely damage it. The cracking is a cellulose layer applied to a wooden form. Dagger handles were made many different ways and these tended to surface crack. The best advice from dagger guys is NEVER take a dagger apart . But hey, it's yours to take care of after surviving all these years. Ruin it if you must.

Your mug is a parody of Hermann Goering.

Dubar · 07-14-2021, 01:45 PM

Here's the bottom of the stein.

Dubar · 07-14-2021, 01:49 PM

That does look like Goering!!!

Should I attempt to clean the blade? What with?? Or leave the blackened surface alone???

lugerholsterrepair · 07-14-2021, 01:54 PM

Light oil and wipe. Whatever comes off good..IF and when you get on the Dagger Forum you will likely get roasted for wanting to do ANYTHING to this dagger. It's a historical artifact. But they may give better advice than I can.

Your mug is post 1945 when Germans were trying to make and sell anything they could to occupation forces.

Dubar · 07-14-2021, 02:04 PM

I hope I can get on the forum. I have no idea when or who cut the portapee off, could have been her uncle or one of her cousins.

Her aunt (Fern) was either a Major or Colonel, I'd have to pull paperwork and look. I know she was in Europe, not sure about Japan so the Japanese stuff may have been gotten by her dad or another uncle.

The dagger is not dirty feeling, I'll leave it as is.

sheepherder · 07-14-2021, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubar

I know she was in Europe, not sure about Japan so the Japanese stuff may have been gotten by her dad or another uncle.

My best friends dad was a tank commander in the European campaign (and spoke Italian); but he brought home a Nambu LMG. We found it in the basement rafters when we were about 15. Somehow his dad noticed that we'd found it, and he took it someplace and buried it (so he told the son). We never found it.

Ive heard similar tales on various Forums over the years, so there may have been some interchange of souvenirs among returning vets.

Dubar · 07-15-2021, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheepherder

My best friends dad was a tank commander in the European campaign (and spoke Italian); but he brought home a Nambu LMG. We found it in the basement rafters when we were about 15. Somehow his dad noticed that we'd found it, and he took it someplace and buried it (so he told the son). We never found it.

Ive heard similar tales on various Forums over the years, so there may have been some interchange of souvenirs among returning vets.

My dad caught me playing with his 45 one day, too young to pull the slide back...it was gone the next day!!!

He said he carried the 45 and a M1 Carbine in the 9th USAAF. Wish he was still here so he could shoot my M1.

I'm not changing anything on the dagger, but would still like to get a spare grip in case the one on it falls completely off. So what color, yellow or orange???

Schupo · 07-15-2021, 11:21 AM

As with the other respondents, leave the grip alone! Celluloid cracks over the years and this is part of the ageing process. A replacement is an alteration. Same thing with the Portepee. leave it alone in its correct tie. Also, make certain the knot that you bought is original and not a postwar fake. Your dagger was made by Carl Eickhorn and I would only lightly oil the blade as a previous poster mentioned.

Of course it is your dagger and you can do what you want with it but I would listen to the advice that you ask for.

Dubar · 07-15-2021, 02:40 PM

LOL

Fellas...read my last few posts. I'M NOT CHANGING ANYTHING!!!

But I am going to buy an extra grip just in case the original one falls off (as I said before).

But I need to determine the color as I'm partially color blind.

lugerholsterrepair · 07-15-2021, 04:59 PM

Color might be the least of your problems IF and WHEN you try to change this grip. These magnificent daggers were handmade. Hand fitted. lengths can vary enough to create fitting problems. I have a very similar example to yours for going on ten years. Treated as a precious historical artifact it has NOT changed one iota in all that time. Your won't either. The only reason to buy another handle is a temptation to do what you have said you have no intention of doing. Save your money and appreciate this for what it is. JMHO.

tomaustin · 07-15-2021, 06:31 PM

I saw one being used as a pry-bar on some nails....

MikeP · 07-15-2021, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomaustin

I saw one being used as a pry-bar on some nails....

Long ago s family friend who spent time in ETO spoke about a naval dagger he had carried around and used as a can and opener and general tool.
Said it finally broke and he tossed it.
As a budding young collector with a big mouth I mentioned he had ruined a valuable collector's item.
"That's what we were over there to do." Was his response.

07-14-2021, 08:31 AM	#1
Dubar User Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: Virginia Posts: 34 Thanks: 25 Thanked 29 Times in 14 Posts	Kriegsmarine Dagger??? Somebody on here has to know something about German daggers so here goes. This is a naval dagger that, according to my wife and mother-in-law (both deceased) was "acquired" by one of my MILs brothers during WW2. When I got it the portapee had already been cut off and the grip is severely cracked. Dagger has some pitting as well. I purchased a new portapee from a fellow in Germany, but have not attempted to put it on (who tied that thing on anyway?!?!?!). Now I want to put a new replacement grip on it, I'll keep the original parts but it's just begging to be replaced with one that is not cracked. I've found them on line, but not sure what color to get. Is this one yellow or orange? I tried joining a German Dagger forum this morning but it keeps saying it doesn't recognize my password, I'll give it a while to see if it finally lets me in. Anyway, what color grip should I get? This would make a great display piece with my recently acquired Luger! The stamp reads Carl Eickhorn Solingen. Attached Thumbnails

07-14-2021, 10:04 AM	#2
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,183 Thanks: 1,400 Thanked 4,442 Times in 2,330 Posts	I would not attempt to replace the original grip. The dagger loses its provenance if you do. It would no longer be original. __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

07-14-2021, 12:19 PM	#3
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	I second that sage advice! You have the advantage of seeing the knot as it is tied still on this dagger. It's a trick for sure..I have done it several times. As with most things, take your time. BUT..I might seriously consider leaving it as is too... __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

07-14-2021, 01:34 PM	#5
Dubar User Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: Virginia Posts: 34 Thanks: 25 Thanked 29 Times in 14 Posts	Here's the stein. Kinda creepy looking. Made In Germany printed in ink on the bottom, along with some numbers (a 4, a 6, and a 26) embedded in the mug. There's also a stamp that looks to read Hoehr Handgemabt and maybe a H with a crown on top. I'll take photos of the bottom later. Attached Thumbnails

07-14-2021, 01:39 PM	#6
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Your dagger is AUTHENTIC as is. Your efforts to IMPROVE it will NOT. It came to you being this way for 80 years...Removing the grip will likely damage it. The cracking is a cellulose layer applied to a wooden form. Dagger handles were made many different ways and these tended to surface crack. The best advice from dagger guys is NEVER take a dagger apart . But hey, it's yours to take care of after surviving all these years. Ruin it if you must. Your mug is a parody of Hermann Goering. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

07-14-2021, 01:19 PM	#4
Dubar User Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: Virginia Posts: 34 Thanks: 25 Thanked 29 Times in 14 Posts	I'll probably leave it as is, but I'd still like to get a grip that's not cracked and along with the portapee I bought, leave them in the bag for future generations. Wish I knew the story about why the portapee got whacked in the first place. I have several "artifacts" from my wife's family. Her dad's uniform and Bronze Star (he was a medic in the Phillipines), one of her uncles (may be the one who got the dagger) was captured, have the letter from the War Dept. Her aunt was an officer nurse and I have a number of items she got from Japan and Germany. One item is a cooling looking beer stein, a head wearing a beenie. I'll have to post a photo of that. Often wonder how much that is worth. Got a photo album of her dad's that has photos of his outfit and locals, one of them holding the severed heads of Japanese soldiers.

07-14-2021, 01:45 PM	#7
Dubar User Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: Virginia Posts: 34 Thanks: 25 Thanked 29 Times in 14 Posts	Here's the bottom of the stein. Attached Thumbnails

07-14-2021, 01:49 PM	#8
Dubar User Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: Virginia Posts: 34 Thanks: 25 Thanked 29 Times in 14 Posts	That does look like Goering!!! Should I attempt to clean the blade? What with?? Or leave the blackened surface alone???

07-14-2021, 01:54 PM	#9
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Light oil and wipe. Whatever comes off good..IF and when you get on the Dagger Forum you will likely get roasted for wanting to do ANYTHING to this dagger. It's a historical artifact. But they may give better advice than I can. Your mug is post 1945 when Germans were trying to make and sell anything they could to occupation forces. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

07-14-2021, 02:04 PM	#10
Dubar User Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: Virginia Posts: 34 Thanks: 25 Thanked 29 Times in 14 Posts	I hope I can get on the forum. I have no idea when or who cut the portapee off, could have been her uncle or one of her cousins. Her aunt (Fern) was either a Major or Colonel, I'd have to pull paperwork and look. I know she was in Europe, not sure about Japan so the Japanese stuff may have been gotten by her dad or another uncle. The dagger is not dirty feeling, I'll leave it as is.

07-15-2021, 11:21 AM	#13
Schupo User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Kansas City Metro Posts: 206 Thanks: 1 Thanked 102 Times in 47 Posts	As with the other respondents, leave the grip alone! Celluloid cracks over the years and this is part of the ageing process. A replacement is an alteration. Same thing with the Portepee. leave it alone in its correct tie. Also, make certain the knot that you bought is original and not a postwar fake. Your dagger was made by Carl Eickhorn and I would only lightly oil the blade as a previous poster mentioned. Of course it is your dagger and you can do what you want with it but I would listen to the advice that you ask for. __________________ "You can't please everyone, so you have got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson

07-15-2021, 02:40 PM	#14
Dubar User Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: Virginia Posts: 34 Thanks: 25 Thanked 29 Times in 14 Posts	LOL Fellas...read my last few posts. I'M NOT CHANGING ANYTHING!!! But I am going to buy an extra grip just in case the original one falls off (as I said before). But I need to determine the color as I'm partially color blind. Last edited by Dubar; 07-15-2021 at 02:41 PM. Reason: correction

07-15-2021, 04:59 PM	#15
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Color might be the least of your problems IF and WHEN you try to change this grip. These magnificent daggers were handmade. Hand fitted. lengths can vary enough to create fitting problems. I have a very similar example to yours for going on ten years. Treated as a precious historical artifact it has NOT changed one iota in all that time. Your won't either. The only reason to buy another handle is a temptation to do what you have said you have no intention of doing. Save your money and appreciate this for what it is. JMHO. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

07-15-2021, 06:31 PM	#16
tomaustin Lifer X5 Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: texas Posts: 708 Thanks: 87 Thanked 522 Times in 201 Posts	I saw one being used as a pry-bar on some nails....