byf 41 Luger (new to me)

[Batty67]

Picked this up last weekend at a very large gunshow. My first Luger. All matching, save the magazine, which does not appear to be correct for this late production, so-called "Black Widow." On that note, any information anyone can provide on the magazine would be appreciated. I understand that an FXO (aluminum bottom since suffix "P") would be "correct"; or, would an unmarked black plastic base be correct?

The bakelite grips are genuine and worn on the inside. They appear to be "type 3" per the sticky on this great website. I tried the hot pin test and it barely made an indent.

Took a while to take some decent (or better) pix, after I carefully cleaned and lubricated the Luger. I took many more pictures during the disassembly, so I can add more, as requested.

All-in-all, I'm very pleased with my purchase of such an elegant, if Nazi era, firearm.

Please let me know what you think, share insights, and let me know if you have any questions. On that note, how would you rate the overall finish and condition? Thanks!

[Batty67]

[Batty67]

[Batty67]

[G.T.]

Hi Batty67, I can replace your aluminum mag bottom with a new Bakelite bottom and replace and reset the rivet? I can also install a new rivet in the alum base and set it as well. The fee for that type of revision is $45.00 which includes return postage. You have a very nice byf, it aqppears to be near mint, and looks to be un-messed with. I'm jealous! Best, til....lat'r.....GT...

[email protected]

[Batty67]

Originally Posted by G.T.

Hi Batty67, I can replace your aluminum mag bottom with a new Bakelite bottom and replace and reset the rivet? I can also install a new rivet in the alum base and set it as well. The fee for that type of revision is $45.00 which includes return postage. You have a very nice byf, it aqppears to be near mint, and looks to be un-messed with. I'm jealous! Best, til....lat'r.....GT...

[email protected]

Thanks G.T. You reputation precedes you on these boards. As for near mint, I'd say my pictures are particularly good (for a change) as I was doing my best on the iphone! It definitely has plenty of honest wear.

Might take you up on your kind offer and skillset. But wouldn't that fundamentally change the "history" of the magazine since it is original and supposed to have an aluminum magazine bottom? At this point, I'd be interested in acquiring an FXO mag or possibly even trading this mag for that one, unless this is much more rare/expensive magazine (but which I tend to doubt).

One important question, though this is all matching, holy smokes Batman, the takedown lever is HARD to engage/disengage (and that is with ample lubrication). It is painful to remove using no tools. For this reason, there is a LOT of wear under/near it. Any suggestions on how to fix this without screwing up the value/finish? Or at least minimally?

[DTR04]

Very nice example of a byf 41. I'm curious, what is the number stamped inside the sideplate? Also, is the takedown lever hard to turn after the sideplate is removed. I have a byf 42 that is like that. Extremely hard to turn to release the sideplate, as in, you need to pry it with a plastic tool to start it. After the sideplate it removed, the takedown lever is still very stiff however, it is easily removed from the frame.

[Batty67]

Originally Posted by DTR04

Very nice example of a byf 41. I'm curious, what is the number stamped inside the sideplate? Also, is the takedown lever hard to turn after the sideplate is removed. I have a byf 42 that is like that. Extremely hard to turn to release the sideplate, as in, you need to pry it with a plastic tool to start it. After the sideplate it removed, the takedown lever is still very stiff however, it is easily removed from the frame.

Thanks. Numbered 95, which a friend who is very knowledgable, stated is correct for this byf (1 more than the first numbers 94). Good question about whether the take down lever is hard to turn with sideplate off. I'll need to double-check (which means disengaging it again). As I recall (faintly), it is still a bit stiff, but with the sideplate on, which fits perfectly, it becomes incredibly tight. A Luger expert at the gunshow where I picked it up, but NOT from him, indicated that it is so ridiculously tight that he'd consider very (very) careful removal of material off the back of the sideplate.

[G.T.]

Hi Batty67, you are correct in that the 41 byfs were issued with two matching alum. base magazines, almost impossible to find these days, even one matching mag is hard to find! So, being we are already screwed on the,"manufactures correct" the next best thing is, "collectors correct"
.... What is that?... You might ask, and I'd reply it is the next best and closest option that has the ability to fall into the same range as your Luger? So, we have some additional criteria here, such as type, (in your case, code "122" or "fxo") original condition, (does it compliment or match the condition of the Luger) and alteration, (has it been messed with and/or disassembled?) your mag has had the rivet or retaining pin removed and damaged.
Now the Black Bakelite magazine bottom was issued with the byf 42's going forward, and also as a replacement for the lost and damaged mags from all the previous lugers combined, and more importantly, (to collectors!) It puts more black into a Black Widow rig. Almost all of them are broken, some just cracked and others missing whole sides or knobs. So, (and this can be argued, but it is my contention) I reversed engineered and submitted prints to have a two cavity Bakelite mold made and ran a few parts to repair all the broken "fxo" mags out there. So instead of reproduction, I label them as new replacement parts and install them as such. In my effort with Lugers, I don't really ever do too much, but the things I do try and do, I try to do my very best, and these Bakelite bottoms are some of my best effort results...
Anyway, the above kind of reflects my perception of the ever bending shape shifting hobby we all try to buck out... All of us trying to stay on for the full eight seconds, and then on to the next event! Best to all, til....lat'r....GT...

[Sieger]

Batty67:

Your byf 41 looks like my byf 41's twin!!

What condition is your bore in?

Mine came with two unnumbered, black plastic base, fxo magazines.

Would you mind sharing your price with us?


Sieger

[Batty67]

Bore is good to very good. Some wear on the rifling but lands and grooves still crisp and shiny. The feed ramp is definitely a bit rough compared to the bore itself. Normally, I'd use some flitz and smooth it by hand while watching a movie, but I suspect that it would be frowned upon. I'd rather not publicly share the price, as I'm new around here. Suffice to say, after doing a lot of shopping around, I think I got a good to maybe very good price. Feel free to email me (check out Storm's thread) and I'll share the price privately.

[gunbugs]

It appears that the suffix letter is different on your magazine than that of the pistol. Plus, I think the mag has been renumbered to "match", as it appears there are file marks where the serial number is on the mag. Nice gun.

[Batty67]

Originally Posted by gunbugs

It appears that the suffix letter is different on your magazine than that of the pistol. Plus, I think the mag has been renumbered to "match", as it appears there are file marks where the serial number is on the mag. Nice gun.

The magazine is defintely not matching with the gun, suffix and number completely wrong. Thanks, I like it.

[Batty67]

Originally Posted by G.T.

Hi Batty67, I can replace your aluminum mag bottom with a new Bakelite bottom and replace and reset the rivet? I can also install a new rivet in the alum base and set it as well. The fee for that type of revision is $45.00 which includes return postage. You have a very nice byf, it aqppears to be near mint, and looks to be un-messed with. I'm jealous! Best, til....lat'r.....GT...

[email protected]

Public thanks and recognition for the uber speedy and high quality work of G.T. in refurbishing my magazine. Vielen dank!

[mrerick]

Assuming that the fitting of the take down lever is correct, there is a small "L" shaped spring that holds it in position inside the channel it fits in.

This spring may be worn, or have bent excessively. It has on side shaved along it's long axis causing it to curve slightly in order to fit into a groove cut in the side of the take down lever, which retains it for correct operation. It might be worth inspecting this for dirt or malformation.

This can be a very tight area normally, and it is possible to break the spring. If the spring is already broken, it could also cause this difficult operation.

[Batty67]

Originally Posted by mrerick

Assuming that the fitting of the take down lever is correct, there is a small "L" shaped spring that holds it in position inside the channel it fits in.

This spring may be worn, or have bent excessively. It has on side shaved along it's long axis causing it to curve slightly in order to fit into a groove cut in the side of the take down lever, which retains it for correct operation. It might be worth inspecting this for dirt or malformation.

This can be a very tight area normally, and it is possible to break the spring. If the spring is already broken, it could also cause this difficult operation.

Thanks, and I JUST got an order from Numrich, so this might wait. But I'll definitely check it out.

[Cav Trooper 19D]

Check takedown lever spring, heres my video explaining it.

https://youtu.be/xn-FvlFKYTc

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by Cav Trooper 19D

Attachment 85682
Check takedown lever spring, heres my video explaining it.

https://youtu.be/xn-FvlFKYTc

My thoughts exactly...

[spangy]

100% agree with the guys.
I suspect the 'stiffness' encountered on your take-down lever is caused by a 'newer' unfitted take-down spring.
I say this because at manufacture this Luger was a fully functioning armorer fitted Luger ... over time small parts are replaced by hobbyists but NOT fitted.
If you are handy at 'gun smithing' the solution I have found is removing the spring and cleaning the springs seat in the frame.
Try it again.
If it is still stiff you will need to gently file the top of the spring with a jewelers file.
Do not be aggressive with the file and check frequently for proper 'fit & feel' of the take-down lever.
I have done many of these springs.
These springs are prone to breaking so ere on the side of caution but don't stress if you break it ... springs run around $0.25 for generic to $25.00 for an original in Canada.
The most frustrating part is reassembling the take-down lever back into the frame which sometimes goes really easy but more often than not can try your patience ... after you have done a few and picked up some assembly experience it becomes very easy.
Whatever you do DO NOT force fit the lever into the frame ... you can end up breaking the lever.
You got the lever out so you know you can get it back in BUT it demands 'exact' positioning with a small amount of force to reassemble it

If you are having difficulty refitting your lever set it down and walk away for a bit.
Frustration is the enemy of the gunsmith.

PS: I love your gun ... it's a beauty.

[Mibit911]

Very nice gun! My byf 41 had vertical bakelite grips I'm trying to find more about, and is a q block like your magazine. If your ever trading magazines I'd be interested!