And you thought Lawyers were expensive!!!!!

G.T. · 09-27-2023, 09:07 PM

Hi to all, well the title pretty much sets the pace on what I'm about to relay to you about reproducing quality parts! I've made quite a few items over the years, and also had quite a few made by reverse engineering and having a print to send out to a job shop! Fortunatly, the quality has been good, and even great some times! About 10 or so years ago, I reverse engineered and drew up a print for fxo Bakelite bottoms and sent it away to one of the leading plastic molding companies in the country who shall remain nameless! I had a hell of a time with them as the ruined order after order (1000 pieces at a shot!) we had to revise the mold several times, and still had issues.. I ended up with about 500 parts to sell and they were good and well received... Im my way of looking at their production, I didn't make a repro part, I made a replacement part! With all the Luger quality i could squeeze into it... Well, that brings me almost up to current. about two years ago, I asked them to further revise the mold and run some samples for a tentitive quantity order. it took two months for them to prepare the mold and run samples, excellent results, twice the price, and a small quantity, Lugerdoc has them instock just waiting for the retaining rivets that are currently being blued. If you're ever going to stick a few away, better get ahold of Tom and stick some away because, I don't think they will run anymore for me in the future, and I'm 70 so do the math... not too much of a chance for future runs... But, always inqusitive, I inquired about making Mauser black Bakelite grip sets and the reply was, in order to have them start a new project, you have to be able to generate $250K annually with the company for a floor minimum? Then they will look at your project, but it is still not a sure thing... Dosen't matter, I'm about $249K short at the moment! Probably should have skipped that last beer? Anyway, I'm down, but not out. I need to find a struggling Bakelite shop and retry... who knows... best to all, til....lat'r....GT

lugerholsterrepair · 10-06-2023, 05:19 PM

There are Bakelite shops? Who knew...?

G.T. · 10-07-2023, 03:45 AM

Hi Jer, the shop manager told me they have two facilities with over 30+presses between the two! They make knobs and handles in over a 1000 types and variations? He said all presses are running 24/7 so basically, there is no room for the little guy, even though the 2 cavity mold cost north of $10,000.00 to begin with!!!

I was very lucky to get the run of parts that I did, but it is easy to tell they are not too excited when my name shows up on caller ID...

I had hoped that I would be able to enlist their aid in a Black Widow grip set replacement, but it is looking like a pretty tough haul right now? Just by what I've seen in my quest, I would suspect a four cavity mold (2 sets) would set one back about, anywhere from, $30,000.00 to $50,000.00 for starters, the reverse engineering and prints another couple of grand, and probably $5.00 a part for a minimum of 1000 parts? When you plunk down that kind of cash for an effy project like that, you have to sell a crap load of grip sets to even recoup your initial investment, and probably 10 years to do it... Only thing going for the project, is they would fit, work and last, something no reproduction can claim right now, with the one exception is Nill Griffe which are walnut, but made very, very well. So, my dream quest may not be in the cards, but all of the above, won't stop me from trying.. Best to all, til......lat'r....GT

BTW, when I was still in the Dakotas, 30 years ago, I knew a forman of a plastics plant, and he was making the trucks that held the four wheels for inline skates, a two cavity injection mold he was working on cost the customer $70K and that was a long time ago!

Edward Tinker · 10-07-2023, 02:03 PM

wow

what I always need in a luger build are the various pins and actual springs, the small springs
but if there was a set of pins available for the breechblock, the extractor, etc. Set of pins, marked as to what they are?

09-27-2023, 09:07 PM	#1
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,507 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,653 Times in 1,004 Posts	And you thought Lawyers were expensive!!!!! Hi to all, well the title pretty much sets the pace on what I'm about to relay to you about reproducing quality parts! I've made quite a few items over the years, and also had quite a few made by reverse engineering and having a print to send out to a job shop! Fortunatly, the quality has been good, and even great some times! About 10 or so years ago, I reverse engineered and drew up a print for fxo Bakelite bottoms and sent it away to one of the leading plastic molding companies in the country who shall remain nameless! I had a hell of a time with them as the ruined order after order (1000 pieces at a shot!) we had to revise the mold several times, and still had issues.. I ended up with about 500 parts to sell and they were good and well received... Im my way of looking at their production, I didn't make a repro part, I made a replacement part! With all the Luger quality i could squeeze into it... Well, that brings me almost up to current. about two years ago, I asked them to further revise the mold and run some samples for a tentitive quantity order. it took two months for them to prepare the mold and run samples, excellent results, twice the price, and a small quantity, Lugerdoc has them instock just waiting for the retaining rivets that are currently being blued. If you're ever going to stick a few away, better get ahold of Tom and stick some away because, I don't think they will run anymore for me in the future, and I'm 70 so do the math... not too much of a chance for future runs... But, always inqusitive, I inquired about making Mauser black Bakelite grip sets and the reply was, in order to have them start a new project, you have to be able to generate $250K annually with the company for a floor minimum? Then they will look at your project, but it is still not a sure thing... Dosen't matter, I'm about $249K short at the moment! Probably should have skipped that last beer? Anyway, I'm down, but not out. I need to find a struggling Bakelite shop and retry... who knows... best to all, til....lat'r....GT

10-06-2023, 05:19 PM	#2
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	There are Bakelite shops? Who knew...? __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

10-07-2023, 03:45 AM	#3
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,507 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,653 Times in 1,004 Posts	shops, sort of? Hi Jer, the shop manager told me they have two facilities with over 30+presses between the two! They make knobs and handles in over a 1000 types and variations? He said all presses are running 24/7 so basically, there is no room for the little guy, even though the 2 cavity mold cost north of $10,000.00 to begin with!!! I was very lucky to get the run of parts that I did, but it is easy to tell they are not too excited when my name shows up on caller ID... I had hoped that I would be able to enlist their aid in a Black Widow grip set replacement, but it is looking like a pretty tough haul right now? Just by what I've seen in my quest, I would suspect a four cavity mold (2 sets) would set one back about, anywhere from, $30,000.00 to $50,000.00 for starters, the reverse engineering and prints another couple of grand, and probably $5.00 a part for a minimum of 1000 parts? When you plunk down that kind of cash for an effy project like that, you have to sell a crap load of grip sets to even recoup your initial investment, and probably 10 years to do it... Only thing going for the project, is they would fit, work and last, something no reproduction can claim right now, with the one exception is Nill Griffe which are walnut, but made very, very well. So, my dream quest may not be in the cards, but all of the above, won't stop me from trying.. Best to all, til......lat'r....GT BTW, when I was still in the Dakotas, 30 years ago, I knew a forman of a plastics plant, and he was making the trucks that held the four wheels for inline skates, a two cavity injection mold he was working on cost the customer $70K and that was a long time ago!

10-07-2023, 02:03 PM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,033 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	wow what I always need in a luger build are the various pins and actual springs, the small springs but if there was a set of pins available for the breechblock, the extractor, etc. Set of pins, marked as to what they are?