S/42 1937 Luger on AA

M38 · 04-22-2004, 03:00 PM

I recently bought a nice S/42 1937 K98k and I would like to get a S/42 1937 Luger to go with it. This will be my first stab at purchasing a collector grade Luger. I noticed this item at Auction Arms http://www.auctionarms.com/Search/Di...temNum=5666857
I still need to find out from the seller if it matches inside as well as outside. If it is legit, what do you think I should set as my ceiling value wise?
Thanks

tudorbug · 04-22-2004, 03:24 PM

You may want to ask also of the grips have matching numbers.

The sale indicates that the magazine is matching but I cannot read a serial number on the rather fuzzy photo of the butt of the pistol, which inludes the bottom of the magazine.

Does the number and suffix letter on the magazine (if there is a letter on the pistol since only a number is mentioned) match the pistol? Is the magazine a correct manufacture and correct WaA stamp as well?

All these fine points can sort of get lost in the shuffle of the words "matching magazine." I don't have the luger magazine list with me at the moment, but, this eveing, if I have a chance, I'll take a look to see what is says about the S42 1937 magazeine and pass it along, for watever it may (or may not :-)) be worth.

John Sabato · 04-22-2004, 04:13 PM

Tudorbug is correct. The gun should have a suffix letter. and IF the magazine is matching in number (magnification of the photo shows no number is present on the mag pictured!) the mag should have not only the same number, but the same suffix letter in order to be "matching"

the photographs appear to be of an INTENTIONALLY poor quality so you can't see the details of the stamps or finish... Even with the poor quality photographs, this gun looks like it has quite a bit of wear on it. All the ad claims is that the finish is original... not how much finish is left.

I would insist on high quality photographs showing all areas of the gun. Especially the serial numbers on the front of the frame and side of the receiver. There is no mention of whether or not the firing pin number matches...

The condition is rated as NRA EXCELLENT, but the gun looks more like FINE.

"EXCELLENT: All original parts; over 80% original finish; sharp lettering, numerals, and design on metal and wood; unmarred wood; fine bore.
FINE: All original parts; over 30% original finish; sharp lettering, numerals, and design on metal and wood; minor marks in wood; good bore.
"

If the seller is not willing to provide such detailed photos or information, then pass...IMHO.

Frank · 04-22-2004, 04:59 PM

Alan, I agree that it should have a letter suffix. Some later 1937 S/42 have no suffix, but this appears to be an early version due to the strawed small parts. If the suffix is in the P or Q-Block chances are the Waffenamt Mark on the magazine will be a Droop wing eagle-over-63. Above a Q-Block the WaA could be either that or a straight wingle eagle-over-63.

The photos are very poor. I think there is a chip out of the left grip below the safety lever. This is repairable for about $25 to $40.

I sure would like some verification regarding the internal (trigger, grips, main toggle pin, hold open lever, breech block and firing pin) and external small parts numbering. I agree with John, try to get some much better photos to verify the matching magazine and to get a better idea of the condition.

I also agree that if you can't get decent photos, then pass. If all the numbers match, I would class it as a low grade collectable and the price is pushing the value at $1100.

If I were you and I wanted a nice collectable, wait for a while. Something will turn up!!

At least that's my opinion! Good Luck!!

tudorbug · 04-22-2004, 05:11 PM

John has far, far more experience than I in this arena, but I admit that I have about concluded that it is very difficult to tell from photos on sites such as Auction Arms and Gun Broker what the real condition of a luger is. I don't know that I would really dare to buy one so offered.

In isolated instances, and to me the instances have really been isolated, excellent, detailed photos do begain to tell the story. But they still come up short of the impression made and facts provided when a luger is in one's hands and right before one's eyes.

Some of the best detailed photos of lugers and their marks and stamps that I have seen have in the three months that my interest in these nice weapons has been renewed have been right here on this forum and not on any site offering them for sale or auction. However, I must allow that I probably have not seen all the sites that offer such weapons.

I suspect that I have would rigidly adhere to the warnings of others on this forum who have considerably more experience than I and who insist before bidding on a three to five day return privelege if they were to be the high bidder. This might solve most of the questions that could otherwise arise.
But, even then, I do not know enough about a luger to dare take one apart to verify matching of stamps on internal parts. I would have to turn to a competent gunsmith to do so since I would not want to damage a pistol provided on approval that I might want to return.

Buying one of these admirable relics is considerably more involved than I ever imagined.

M38 · 04-22-2004, 05:11 PM

Sharper pics

John Sabato · 04-22-2004, 06:19 PM

Okay Alan,

These are much better photos, but I completely agree with Frank that $1100 is the very limit for this gun...

The only question not answered by these photos is the suffix letter for the serial number. For the gun to command a price this high, it MUST have the same serial number and suffix letter on both the pistol and the magazine. If they are different, you can lower the value a couple of hundred. The photo showing the mag bottom is still not clear enough to make out the suffix letter under magnification....

Good Luck and let us know how it works out.

Frank · 04-22-2004, 07:29 PM

Alan, John, I cleaned up the magazine photo a bit and I am reasonably sure it's an "r" and the Waffenamt Mark is a stick eagle-over-63, which is correct. Now convince yourself the suffix of the pistol is also "r". This letter is found on the front of the frame below the barrel, just under the numbers.

The Luger looks a bit better than with the previous photos. It does have a chip out of the left grip, which I thought I saw on the bad photo.

Okay, Alan, your call!! Good Luck!!

M38 · 04-22-2004, 08:28 PM

Thanks a bunch!
You guys are a priceless resource.
Definitely NRA Excellent!

minigun · 04-23-2004, 08:08 AM

M38, contact me. I may have what you are wanting.

04-22-2004, 03:00 PM	#1
M38 User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Northern VA Posts: 37 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	S/42 1937 Luger on AA I recently bought a nice S/42 1937 K98k and I would like to get a S/42 1937 Luger to go with it. This will be my first stab at purchasing a collector grade Luger. I noticed this item at Auction Arms http://www.auctionarms.com/Search/Di...temNum=5666857 I still need to find out from the seller if it matches inside as well as outside. If it is legit, what do you think I should set as my ceiling value wise? Thanks

04-22-2004, 04:13 PM	#3
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Tudorbug is correct. The gun should have a suffix letter. and IF the magazine is matching in number (magnification of the photo shows no number is present on the mag pictured!) the mag should have not only the same number, but the same suffix letter in order to be "matching" the photographs appear to be of an INTENTIONALLY poor quality so you can't see the details of the stamps or finish... Even with the poor quality photographs, this gun looks like it has quite a bit of wear on it. All the ad claims is that the finish is original... not how much finish is left. I would insist on high quality photographs showing all areas of the gun. Especially the serial numbers on the front of the frame and side of the receiver. There is no mention of whether or not the firing pin number matches... The condition is rated as NRA EXCELLENT, but the gun looks more like FINE. "EXCELLENT: All original parts; over 80% original finish; sharp lettering, numerals, and design on metal and wood; unmarred wood; fine bore. FINE: All original parts; over 30% original finish; sharp lettering, numerals, and design on metal and wood; minor marks in wood; good bore. " If the seller is not willing to provide such detailed photos or information, then pass...IMHO. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

04-22-2004, 06:19 PM	#7
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Okay Alan, These are much better photos, but I completely agree with Frank that $1100 is the very limit for this gun... The only question not answered by these photos is the suffix letter for the serial number. For the gun to command a price this high, it MUST have the same serial number and suffix letter on both the pistol and the magazine. If they are different, you can lower the value a couple of hundred. The photo showing the mag bottom is still not clear enough to make out the suffix letter under magnification.... Good Luck and let us know how it works out. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

04-22-2004, 03:24 PM	#2
tudorbug Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Georgia Posts: 387 Thanks: 0 Thanked 40 Times in 29 Posts	You may want to ask also of the grips have matching numbers. The sale indicates that the magazine is matching but I cannot read a serial number on the rather fuzzy photo of the butt of the pistol, which inludes the bottom of the magazine. Does the number and suffix letter on the magazine (if there is a letter on the pistol since only a number is mentioned) match the pistol? Is the magazine a correct manufacture and correct WaA stamp as well? All these fine points can sort of get lost in the shuffle of the words "matching magazine." I don't have the luger magazine list with me at the moment, but, this eveing, if I have a chance, I'll take a look to see what is says about the S42 1937 magazeine and pass it along, for watever it may (or may not :-)) be worth.

04-22-2004, 04:59 PM	#4
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	Alan, I agree that it should have a letter suffix. Some later 1937 S/42 have no suffix, but this appears to be an early version due to the strawed small parts. If the suffix is in the P or Q-Block chances are the Waffenamt Mark on the magazine will be a Droop wing eagle-over-63. Above a Q-Block the WaA could be either that or a straight wingle eagle-over-63. The photos are very poor. I think there is a chip out of the left grip below the safety lever. This is repairable for about $25 to $40. I sure would like some verification regarding the internal (trigger, grips, main toggle pin, hold open lever, breech block and firing pin) and external small parts numbering. I agree with John, try to get some much better photos to verify the matching magazine and to get a better idea of the condition. I also agree that if you can't get decent photos, then pass. If all the numbers match, I would class it as a low grade collectable and the price is pushing the value at $1100. If I were you and I wanted a nice collectable, wait for a while. Something will turn up!! At least that's my opinion! Good Luck!!

04-22-2004, 05:11 PM	#5
tudorbug Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Georgia Posts: 387 Thanks: 0 Thanked 40 Times in 29 Posts	John has far, far more experience than I in this arena, but I admit that I have about concluded that it is very difficult to tell from photos on sites such as Auction Arms and Gun Broker what the real condition of a luger is. I don't know that I would really dare to buy one so offered. In isolated instances, and to me the instances have really been isolated, excellent, detailed photos do begain to tell the story. But they still come up short of the impression made and facts provided when a luger is in one's hands and right before one's eyes. Some of the best detailed photos of lugers and their marks and stamps that I have seen have in the three months that my interest in these nice weapons has been renewed have been right here on this forum and not on any site offering them for sale or auction. However, I must allow that I probably have not seen all the sites that offer such weapons. I suspect that I have would rigidly adhere to the warnings of others on this forum who have considerably more experience than I and who insist before bidding on a three to five day return privelege if they were to be the high bidder. This might solve most of the questions that could otherwise arise. But, even then, I do not know enough about a luger to dare take one apart to verify matching of stamps on internal parts. I would have to turn to a competent gunsmith to do so since I would not want to damage a pistol provided on approval that I might want to return. Buying one of these admirable relics is considerably more involved than I ever imagined.

04-22-2004, 07:29 PM	#8
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	Alan, John, I cleaned up the magazine photo a bit and I am reasonably sure it's an "r" and the Waffenamt Mark is a stick eagle-over-63, which is correct. Now convince yourself the suffix of the pistol is also "r". This letter is found on the front of the frame below the barrel, just under the numbers. The Luger looks a bit better than with the previous photos. It does have a chip out of the left grip, which I thought I saw on the bad photo. Okay, Alan, your call!! Good Luck!!

04-22-2004, 08:28 PM	#9
M38 User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Northern VA Posts: 37 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks a bunch! You guys are a priceless resource. Definitely NRA Excellent!

04-23-2004, 08:08 AM	#10
minigun User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 424 Thanks: 15 Thanked 19 Times in 14 Posts	M38, contact me. I may have what you are wanting.