What is this?

Vertigo · 02-03-2004, 11:02 AM

Here are some pictures from my luger. I would be very pleased if someone could tell me some facts about it.
-what is the model?
-how old is it?
-...

Those are the markings I found. ThankÃ?Â´s from helping me to identify my luger. Sorry the crappy text.

Vertigo · 02-03-2004, 11:03 AM

more pics...

Vertigo · 02-03-2004, 11:04 AM

more...

thanks

Vertigo · 02-03-2004, 11:08 AM

Oh, I almost forgot to mention, what a bargain it was. The luger cost only 320Ã¢?Â¬!

John Sabato · 02-03-2004, 10:16 PM

Vertigo,

This Luger definitely was a bargain at 320 Euros in my opinion.

The lack of proofs seems to indicate that it is a commercial pistol of DWM manufacture. The number marking on the sideplate "98" sideways is unlike any Luger numbering I have ever personally observed, but I don't have any printed references with me today... Perhaps someone else can comment on the numbering.

Since it is in the P-08 configuration complete with stock lug, it would have to have been manufactured after 1906 and before the DWM equipment was transferred (I think in 1933).

Please show us a closeup of the right side of the upper receiver where the proof and acceptance stamps normally are placed.

The finish looks original, and it has lived a dry but active life...

That's about all I can tell you off the top of my (bald) head...

Maybe someone else can recognize it.

Vertigo · 02-04-2004, 10:46 AM

John
Thanks. I knew that the gun was made before the year 1933 and after the year 1906. I already told you about the gunregister marking "Parabellum 23-08" could it be that my luger was made in the year 1923?
Finnish army adopted the 08 luger in the year 1923 to be the side arm of the officers. But the Finnish army lugers have got SA markings on them. SA means Suomen armeija wich means Finnish army. There are no SA markings in my luger so you must be right that my luger is a commercial product.

It was very rare to a civilian to own a luger in Finland before the WWII, but some officers, who liked luger pistols, bought their own lugers directly from Germany. That was very rare.

There were German soldiers in Finland helping Finnish troops fighting back the russians victoriously in the time of Continuos war 1942-1944. When Finland made the peace contract with the Russians, (-44) the contract forced Finland to make the Germans leave Finland. IÃ?Â´ve seen some lugers wich used to be the side arm of a German soldier in the Lapland war when Finnish soldiers fought against the Germans. Germans burned down almost whole Lapland when they pulled back to North to Norway. Those lugers inclueded the markings of the German army and there are no such markings in my luger.

The question with the age of my luger seems to be a real hard one. It seems to be impossible to get know the manufacturing year. IÃ?Â´ll send you those closeup photos maybe in the next week.

I hope some one regonizes my luger some day.

John Sabato · 02-04-2004, 11:03 AM

Having done a little research since we last communicated... Finland acquired 8000 Model 23 Lugers in 7.65mm from DWM between 1923 and 1930. There were designated Model 1923. Some where refurbished in 9mm at a later date and different length barrels were sometimes used...

I am sure this is the origin of your pistol's name in the police register as Parabellum 23-08.

The model "08" being the second half of the model designation.

You will find this information in John Walter's "THE LUGER BOOK" on pages 112-113.

Vertigo · 02-04-2004, 11:27 AM

Thanks alot! The barrel could easily changed at a later date as you said. There are no markings in it and itÃ?Â´s condition is well too good to be a gun of the armed forces. Army usually shoots the gun untill it breaks and throws it away or changes some new parts to it. It could be that the gun used to belonged to a Finnish soldier that smuggled it home and kept it.

02-03-2004, 11:02 AM	#1
Vertigo User Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	What is this? Here are some pictures from my luger. I would be very pleased if someone could tell me some facts about it. -what is the model? -how old is it? -... Those are the markings I found. ThankÃ?Â´s from helping me to identify my luger. Sorry the crappy text.

02-03-2004, 10:16 PM	#5
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Vertigo, This Luger definitely was a bargain at 320 Euros in my opinion. The lack of proofs seems to indicate that it is a commercial pistol of DWM manufacture. The number marking on the sideplate "98" sideways is unlike any Luger numbering I have ever personally observed, but I don't have any printed references with me today... Perhaps someone else can comment on the numbering. Since it is in the P-08 configuration complete with stock lug, it would have to have been manufactured after 1906 and before the DWM equipment was transferred (I think in 1933). Please show us a closeup of the right side of the upper receiver where the proof and acceptance stamps normally are placed. The finish looks original, and it has lived a dry but active life... That's about all I can tell you off the top of my (bald) head... Maybe someone else can recognize it. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

02-04-2004, 11:03 AM	#7
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Having done a little research since we last communicated... Finland acquired 8000 Model 23 Lugers in 7.65mm from DWM between 1923 and 1930. There were designated Model 1923. Some where refurbished in 9mm at a later date and different length barrels were sometimes used... I am sure this is the origin of your pistol's name in the police register as Parabellum 23-08. The model "08" being the second half of the model designation. You will find this information in John Walter's "THE LUGER BOOK" on pages 112-113. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

02-03-2004, 11:03 AM	#2
Vertigo User Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	more pics...

02-03-2004, 11:04 AM	#3
Vertigo User Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	more... thanks

02-03-2004, 11:08 AM	#4
Vertigo User Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Oh, I almost forgot to mention, what a bargain it was. The luger cost only 320Ã¢?Â¬!

02-04-2004, 10:46 AM	#6
Vertigo User Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	John Thanks. I knew that the gun was made before the year 1933 and after the year 1906. I already told you about the gunregister marking "Parabellum 23-08" could it be that my luger was made in the year 1923? Finnish army adopted the 08 luger in the year 1923 to be the side arm of the officers. But the Finnish army lugers have got SA markings on them. SA means Suomen armeija wich means Finnish army. There are no SA markings in my luger so you must be right that my luger is a commercial product. It was very rare to a civilian to own a luger in Finland before the WWII, but some officers, who liked luger pistols, bought their own lugers directly from Germany. That was very rare. There were German soldiers in Finland helping Finnish troops fighting back the russians victoriously in the time of Continuos war 1942-1944. When Finland made the peace contract with the Russians, (-44) the contract forced Finland to make the Germans leave Finland. IÃ?Â´ve seen some lugers wich used to be the side arm of a German soldier in the Lapland war when Finnish soldiers fought against the Germans. Germans burned down almost whole Lapland when they pulled back to North to Norway. Those lugers inclueded the markings of the German army and there are no such markings in my luger. The question with the age of my luger seems to be a real hard one. It seems to be impossible to get know the manufacturing year. IÃ?Â´ll send you those closeup photos maybe in the next week. I hope some one regonizes my luger some day.

02-04-2004, 11:27 AM	#8
Vertigo User Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks alot! The barrel could easily changed at a later date as you said. There are no markings in it and itÃ?Â´s condition is well too good to be a gun of the armed forces. Army usually shoots the gun untill it breaks and throws it away or changes some new parts to it. It could be that the gun used to belonged to a Finnish soldier that smuggled it home and kept it.