Understanding the Luger and its value/history

BDS · 07-22-2002, 11:39 PM

I am new to the ownership of Lugers, so go slow. I consider myself very lucky to have been given my late father in law Luger, which he brought back from Germany. As soon as I figure out how to post a picture on this site I will. In the mean time can you please help me out in some history, value, etc on this Luger? The holster is tan leather, and marked on the back Ã¢??Ken-Klager & Cie 1918 New-UlmÃ¢?Â The top of the Luger is marked Erfurt. The s/n is a 4 digit number and all of the parts are marked with the last two numbers of the s/n Ã¢??19Ã¢?Â. The finish is 99%, light wooden grips. Also, both clips are marked with the guns s/n on the bottom of the clip, which is wooden.
Thank you
Mark

John Sabato · 07-23-2002, 06:53 PM

Welcome to the Lugerforum Mark.

Please forgive the following text because I just used it to give instructions to another new user... but it applies here as well.

As far as posting photos, go to the homepage and there is a link on the left frame for uploading a photo or graphic... just follow the instructions when you take the link... then using the "image" tab below the post input box when you reply, just insert the URL for the photo in between the UBB tags and your photo will appear in your post. You can post more than one photo by just placing spaces between each image you insert. You must use UBB tags for each image...

If you need additional instructions take this link:

Upload Instructions

The serial number of the Luger will be located on the front of the grip frame and should be composed of a number (likely 4 digits) and there should be a lower case character stamped underneath it. This character is part of the serial number.

The number you mentioned as the serial number is really a military acceptance stamp.

On the top of the chamber there should be a date stamp. And on the top of the toggle, there should be a manufacturers stamp.

If you go to the Lugerforum Homepage you will find a link on the left frame that is labeled Technical Information. Take that link and download the identification sheets and they will tell you what information we must know to properly identify your gun if it is in fact a Luger. report what you find in a reply to this thread and some of the members will help ID your pistol.

The small pocket on the inside of the holster is actually for holding a small screwdriver/takedown tool that is also used to help load the magazine.

If you have either a scanner or a digital camera or have access to one you can post a scan or a photo of the pistol and holster and that will be helpful in identification too.

We need to see a scan or photo of both sides and the top of the pistol and both sides of the holster if you can.

We will be waiting to hear from you and once again Welcome to the Lugerforum.
Lugerforum Homepage

BDS · 07-23-2002, 07:32 PM

BDS · 07-23-2002, 07:38 PM

I think I figured out the pictures.

Doubs · 07-23-2002, 08:44 PM

BDS, that is as NICE an Erfurt as I think I've ever seen. The mags appear to be unused and the pistol itself has a VERY little holster wear. You are indeed fortunate to have inherited it. If you want to experience the thrill of shooting a Luger, PLEASE get a "shooter" grade pistol and leave this one in it's present condition. Having a holster with a matching year date is just icing on the cake! A wonderful rig.

John Sabato · 07-24-2002, 12:28 PM

BDS, I agree with Doubs, that is an exceptional Erfurt Luger. WOW, what a way to start your interest in Lugers!

I will let one of the true collectors comment on the current value, but I can assure you that you are sitting on at least a $1000 worth of Luger and with all the super accessories that you have, probably much much more.

Clean it carefully... Use "Breakfree" CLP and keep it lubricated and in a dry location. Do not store it in the holster. Try to not get any gun oil on the grips, remove them when you clean the gun and be very careful with the left grip because they have a tendency to break off a chip near the safety lever if they are improperly installed... they are beautiful condition.

For care of the holster, go to our homepage at Lugerforum Homepage Link and take the general information link in the left frame and carefully read the article on leather preservation. Use no oils... especially NOT neatsfoot oil.

If you want to shoot a Luger, buy one of the shooter grade parts gun. the one you already own is a keeper not a shooter... Pass it on to you grandchildren if you can.

BTW, you did a great job on your first try with posting photos... I hope you don't mind but I took the liberty of cropping, enlarging and enhancing the color balance and contrast of your first two photos to give the forum a closer look... It is a MIGHTY FINE LUGER!

bradsimpson · 07-25-2002, 02:14 AM

Mark,
Looks like a super nice Erfurt Rig. Any chance of a holster pic, and a close-up of the magazine serial numbers?

I would pay you $2,500 for it if it is as nice & original as it looks.

Edmond , DCB shooting · 07-25-2002, 07:06 AM

And one more thing, Gentlemen, for us european collectors, it has even something more, the imperial crown has one small part missing, we call it here broken tooth pistol because one " tooth " of the stamping tool was broken in summer 1918, 1000 has been produced like that , usually they were rejected, but not this batch sent to the western front as fast as possible where they were desperately needed.and WOW, that's the third broken tooth I see and I shot one, a wonderful pistol..

Doubs · 07-25-2002, 03:27 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Edmond , DCB shooting:
<strong>And one more thing, Gentlemen, for us european collectors, it has even something more, the imperial crown has one small part missing, we call it here broken tooth pistol because one " tooth " of the stamping tool was broken in summer 1918, 1000 has been produced like that , usually they were rejected, but not this batch sent to the western front as fast as possible where they were desperately needed.and WOW, that's the third broken tooth I see and I shot one, a wonderful pistol..</strong><hr></blockquote>

Edmond, I'm at work now and don't have my books handy but I seem to recall that other years of Erfurt production also had incomplete crowns stamped on the toggle. I believe 1917 had some too

Edmond , DCB shooting · 07-25-2002, 04:54 PM

Hi, I knew for 1918 from one of the owners and the german book he had , explaining it for 1918, always interesting to know more, looking forward to read about it in other year ( s )thanks

BDS · 07-25-2002, 09:10 PM

Here is the holster. Thanks you all for the infromation. Another question, is Pecards ok for the leather and what is the best wat to store the holster?
thanks
mark

Doubs · 07-26-2002, 12:05 AM

Edmond, according to Jan Still's book "Imperial Lugers", a few Erfurt Lugers produced in 1916, 1917 and 1918 had a defective crown stamped on them.... what he describes as a distorted upper and right side of the crown. I have one with a break in the LEFT side of the crown! It's thinly struck and this one was reworked after the war into a "commercial" .30 caliber. The year date, unfortunately, has been removed but I suspect it to be either 1917 or 1918 as the front of the receiver is notched for the Artillery sight and there is a sight on the rear toggle. Other than the barrel, the pistol is completely matching so it's not a 1914 Artillery rework.

kidvett · 07-26-2002, 07:53 AM

Congratulations Mark on that incredible ERFURT! <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />

I'm new to ERFURTS collecting but I can assure you that if I ever come across a rig like yours, I wont think twice about buying it right away!

Very nice rig! <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

kidvett [img]cool.gif[/img]

bradsimpson · 07-26-2002, 02:49 PM

Mark,
I would put Pecard on the holster. When it dries, I would store it in a large Zip-Loc plastic bag.

07-22-2002, 11:39 PM	#1
BDS New User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: mo Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Understanding the Luger and its value/history I am new to the ownership of Lugers, so go slow. I consider myself very lucky to have been given my late father in law Luger, which he brought back from Germany. As soon as I figure out how to post a picture on this site I will. In the mean time can you please help me out in some history, value, etc on this Luger? The holster is tan leather, and marked on the back Ã¢??Ken-Klager & Cie 1918 New-UlmÃ¢?Â The top of the Luger is marked Erfurt. The s/n is a 4 digit number and all of the parts are marked with the last two numbers of the s/n Ã¢??19Ã¢?Â. The finish is 99%, light wooden grips. Also, both clips are marked with the guns s/n on the bottom of the clip, which is wooden. Thank you Mark

07-23-2002, 06:53 PM	#2
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Welcome to the Lugerforum Mark. Please forgive the following text because I just used it to give instructions to another new user... but it applies here as well. As far as posting photos, go to the homepage and there is a link on the left frame for uploading a photo or graphic... just follow the instructions when you take the link... then using the "image" tab below the post input box when you reply, just insert the URL for the photo in between the UBB tags and your photo will appear in your post. You can post more than one photo by just placing spaces between each image you insert. You must use UBB tags for each image... If you need additional instructions take this link: Upload Instructions The serial number of the Luger will be located on the front of the grip frame and should be composed of a number (likely 4 digits) and there should be a lower case character stamped underneath it. This character is part of the serial number. The number you mentioned as the serial number is really a military acceptance stamp. On the top of the chamber there should be a date stamp. And on the top of the toggle, there should be a manufacturers stamp. If you go to the Lugerforum Homepage you will find a link on the left frame that is labeled Technical Information. Take that link and download the identification sheets and they will tell you what information we must know to properly identify your gun if it is in fact a Luger. report what you find in a reply to this thread and some of the members will help ID your pistol. The small pocket on the inside of the holster is actually for holding a small screwdriver/takedown tool that is also used to help load the magazine. If you have either a scanner or a digital camera or have access to one you can post a scan or a photo of the pistol and holster and that will be helpful in identification too. We need to see a scan or photo of both sides and the top of the pistol and both sides of the holster if you can. We will be waiting to hear from you and once again Welcome to the Lugerforum. Lugerforum Homepage __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-24-2002, 12:28 PM	#6
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	BDS, I agree with Doubs, that is an exceptional Erfurt Luger. WOW, what a way to start your interest in Lugers! I will let one of the true collectors comment on the current value, but I can assure you that you are sitting on at least a $1000 worth of Luger and with all the super accessories that you have, probably much much more. Clean it carefully... Use "Breakfree" CLP and keep it lubricated and in a dry location. Do not store it in the holster. Try to not get any gun oil on the grips, remove them when you clean the gun and be very careful with the left grip because they have a tendency to break off a chip near the safety lever if they are improperly installed... they are beautiful condition. For care of the holster, go to our homepage at Lugerforum Homepage Link and take the general information link in the left frame and carefully read the article on leather preservation. Use no oils... especially NOT neatsfoot oil. If you want to shoot a Luger, buy one of the shooter grade parts gun. the one you already own is a keeper not a shooter... Pass it on to you grandchildren if you can. BTW, you did a great job on your first try with posting photos... I hope you don't mind but I took the liberty of cropping, enlarging and enhancing the color balance and contrast of your first two photos to give the forum a closer look... It is a MIGHTY FINE LUGER! __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-25-2002, 07:06 AM	#8
Edmond , DCB shooting User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: FRANCE Posts: 53 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	And one more thing, Gentlemen, for us european collectors, it has even something more, the imperial crown has one small part missing, we call it here broken tooth pistol because one " tooth " of the stamping tool was broken in summer 1918, 1000 has been produced like that , usually they were rejected, but not this batch sent to the western front as fast as possible where they were desperately needed.and WOW, that's the third broken tooth I see and I shot one, a wonderful pistol.. __________________ Shoot'in by DCB

07-25-2002, 04:54 PM	#10
Edmond , DCB shooting User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: FRANCE Posts: 53 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi, I knew for 1918 from one of the owners and the german book he had , explaining it for 1918, always interesting to know more, looking forward to read about it in other year ( s )thanks __________________ Shoot'in by DCB

07-23-2002, 07:32 PM	#3
BDS New User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: mo Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

07-23-2002, 07:38 PM	#4
BDS New User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: mo Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I think I figured out the pictures.

07-23-2002, 08:44 PM	#5
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,700 Thanks: 792 Thanked 1,692 Times in 555 Posts	BDS, that is as NICE an Erfurt as I think I've ever seen. The mags appear to be unused and the pistol itself has a VERY little holster wear. You are indeed fortunate to have inherited it. If you want to experience the thrill of shooting a Luger, PLEASE get a "shooter" grade pistol and leave this one in it's present condition. Having a holster with a matching year date is just icing on the cake! A wonderful rig.

07-25-2002, 02:14 AM	#7
bradsimpson User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Galesburg, IL Posts: 135 Thanks: 0 Thanked 17 Times in 9 Posts	Mark, Looks like a super nice Erfurt Rig. Any chance of a holster pic, and a close-up of the magazine serial numbers? I would pay you $2,500 for it if it is as nice & original as it looks.

07-25-2002, 03:27 PM	#9
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,700 Thanks: 792 Thanked 1,692 Times in 555 Posts	[quote]Originally posted by Edmond , DCB shooting: <strong>And one more thing, Gentlemen, for us european collectors, it has even something more, the imperial crown has one small part missing, we call it here broken tooth pistol because one " tooth " of the stamping tool was broken in summer 1918, 1000 has been produced like that , usually they were rejected, but not this batch sent to the western front as fast as possible where they were desperately needed.and WOW, that's the third broken tooth I see and I shot one, a wonderful pistol..</strong><hr></blockquote> Edmond, I'm at work now and don't have my books handy but I seem to recall that other years of Erfurt production also had incomplete crowns stamped on the toggle. I believe 1917 had some too

07-25-2002, 09:10 PM	#11
BDS New User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: mo Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Here is the holster. Thanks you all for the infromation. Another question, is Pecards ok for the leather and what is the best wat to store the holster? thanks mark

07-26-2002, 12:05 AM	#12
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,700 Thanks: 792 Thanked 1,692 Times in 555 Posts	Edmond, according to Jan Still's book "Imperial Lugers", a few Erfurt Lugers produced in 1916, 1917 and 1918 had a defective crown stamped on them.... what he describes as a distorted upper and right side of the crown. I have one with a break in the LEFT side of the crown! It's thinly struck and this one was reworked after the war into a "commercial" .30 caliber. The year date, unfortunately, has been removed but I suspect it to be either 1917 or 1918 as the front of the receiver is notched for the Artillery sight and there is a sight on the rear toggle. Other than the barrel, the pistol is completely matching so it's not a 1914 Artillery rework.

07-26-2002, 07:53 AM	#13
kidvett User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 584 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Congratulations Mark on that incredible ERFURT! <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" /> I'm new to ERFURTS collecting but I can assure you that if I ever come across a rig like yours, I wont think twice about buying it right away! Very nice rig! <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> kidvett [img]cool.gif[/img]

07-26-2002, 02:49 PM	#14
bradsimpson User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Galesburg, IL Posts: 135 Thanks: 0 Thanked 17 Times in 9 Posts	Mark, I would put Pecard on the holster. When it dries, I would store it in a large Zip-Loc plastic bag.