Collectables

How is it possible that nearly sixty years after the last Luger was made that there are so many "collector grade" pistols around?

It would seem to me that there were only so many pistols that were brought back by GI's. Is there something I'm missing here concerning where all these Lugers come from?

When you can buy a very fine example of a Nazi era P08 for only a little more than a thousand dollars it tells me that Lugers are not really all that rare.

Did I say rare? It seems to me that we have our choice of many, many "collectable" pistols on a daily basis.

How does that make them rare? How do Lugers really hold their value when my experience is that Luger prices have held pretty steady for the last twenty years?

Aren't Lugers pretty much only collected by the few that just keep circulating the same pistols amongst an ever smaller circle of collectors?

Is it not true that there is a generation that is coming that barely knows what WWII was? Not to mention that 25 years worth of anti-gun propaganda is having a telling effect on that same generation.

Will we be the last buyers of these wonderfully machined pistols, at any price?

I wonder.


Mike

[G.T.]

Hello Mike! And welcome to the forum! You have put forth some very interesting questions....I shall try to give you my opinion on the subject with as objective of view as is possible. #1) The reason the there is so many collector grade lugers available is because there were many, many thousands produced, and very few were in action. Another factor is that most all were surrendered or captured.....hence the term war trophy....the P.08 was not only brought back as a war trophy during the war years, but continued to find there way into the country during the occupation years and beyond.....There is a lot of them in this country, "rare and elusive but ever present"!

#2) A thousand dollars makes any pistol rare to most of the working class, and even one pistol of this caliber is a collection in it's self!

#3) the luger holds its's value or continues to gain simply because more and more collectors are becomming aware of the Lugers mystic.....old world craftsmanship, combined with historical significance......It was desirable then, it's desirable now!

#4) THE LUGER IS, AND WILL MOST LIKELY REMAIN THE MOST COLLECTED PISTOL IN THE WORLD!! To my knowledge this has been stated many times, and has been disputed by no one!!

#5) We can only hope that the anti-gun faction will not succeed in their quest to disarm the free men of the world!

Again, welcome Mike to the forum! I hope you enjoy it as much as I do! till...later....G.T.

Hello GT.

Thanks for your response.

However, I see some problems with it.

To start with, 4 out of five Lugers were lost on the Eastern Front. Those pistols are only now showing up as Eastbloc reworks.

I'm not sure what you mean by thousand dollar Lugers being "big time" to the "working class" as you so highly put it. What I mean is that decent collector grade Lugers have NOT advanced in price in twenty years.

The exotic pistols are always exotic aren't they?

The true rare and valuable. Regardless, a $3500 pistol of twenty years ago is STILL a $3500 pistol.

I don't know about YOU, but I'm a small-time collector with a total firearm collection value of about $40k.

By the way. Im "working class".

Your responses to #3,#4 and #5 do not convince me of anything, except your attitude.


Hey, I'm sorry, but this is what, a 30 person forum?

I hope I'm not causing a lot of problems with my questions.

I AM a true believer where Lugers are concerned.


Mike.

[G.T.]

Hello Mike! I stand by my statements as they are written! Good luck to you in your future collecting endeavors! till...later...G.T.

[Michael E Halbrook]

I've also noticed that prices are pretty flat. I bought an

Artillery Luger for $1200.00 in 88' I could probably get a

similar gun now for not much more.

The WWII guns seem to bring higher prices, but in comparison

to prices of current production guns, most Lugers are not expensive.

I bought a brand new Colt MKIV .45 for $144.00 in 1974,

a good WWII or WWI matching Luger would have been around

$400.00 to $500.00. The difference now seems a bit less.


Yes, I think allot of the guns go from collector to collector, but witness the posts about "I've just inherted

a Luger" that show guns are still out there outside of

the established collectors.


One of the pitfalls of collecting is "a little knowledge".

I just found out the M1 Garrand I've owned since 1969 is a

reweld

This is why new collectors are recommended to reputable

Luger specialists to start out.


HTH

Mike Halbrook

[Marvin]

Mike,


i think you and G.T. both have some valid points. I agree that the price of most collectable Lugers have stayed in a "flat" postiion for a while now, but I hope that the recent influx of the Russian reblues will get others into the hobby of collecting Lugers. If this does happen, many of these new Luger collectors will begin to buy the more collectable pieces and then the price may start to climb again. Collecting is almost a 2 edged sword; we want to buy them for a low price and then be able to sell them at a high price. We can't have our "cake and eat it too"! For Luger collectors, we can't look at the short term monetary gain, but must look ahead and hope they will increase in value over a number years.


Another reason to purchase collectable Lugers are the historical and artistic value which they bring. This is the reason I collect them, for historical value and for the type machining whcih was done from the beginning of Luger manufacture. With this being my primary reason, I also hope the value will increase as an added benefit to me. Just a fe of my thoughts on Luger collecting.


Marvin

It would seem that all collectable have their peaks & valleys in demand (prices), but on the average, I've found that Lugers seem to double in value, every ten years. The Lugers that we purchased in 1960 mail order for $40, are now selling in the $650 to $750 range, unless it was a Kreighoff or some thing unusual that you dug deep to pay $100 for. At very least, they have kept up with inflation. Up until a few years ago a new in the box 1911Al was common at shows in the $500 to $700 range. Look were they are at today. I suspect that these renumbered, refinished E. German reworks that are selling today in the $500 range will be $1000 by 2010, as more research is published on them. Tom

[Marvin]

Tom,


Some very good points which you make on the prices of Lugers increasing over time. Back approx. 25 years ago, a common Luger could be purchased for $150-$200 from the gun shows with a little "wheeling and dealing" in my area. Today, this same pistol sells for approx. $800-$900 from dealers and if you are lucky, may be able to buy it for $700-$750. This holds that they will increase in value just from inflation if you hold on to them for a period of time.


Even the Import marked and dip blued pistols will increase. Several years ago, the import marked pistols were selling at gun shows for approx. $400 for a matching numbered pistol. Today, AIM was selling the same condition pistol to the C&R collectors for $500. At the last gun show I attended, the pistols had a marked price of $800 (did not see any sell though) and the dealer would not come off that price but only approx. $75. So, the non FFL holders were going to pay this price to get an import marked Luger as a shooter. As the supply of these imports dries-up, the price will increase on them and this can be noticed on the Internet firearms sales auctions. What this will mean shortly, is that the non-Import Marked Lugers will increase in value as the imports creep up just from the "supply and demand" from new Luger pistol collectors/shooters want the pistols. I feel this is a prime time to buy Lugers as an investment, historical or shooter value. Unless you a dealer and want to buy to resell, buy a Luger for the enjoyment you can get from them and let them increase in monetary value at their own pace. At times, you will get very lucky and get one at a good price, watch for these and make that purchase. Several weeks ago, I made an excellent purchase on a fairly rare P.38 and paid approx. 1/2 of it's fair market value. This pistol came from a dealer, so the buys are there if you watch for them.


I enjoy this hobby with my main purpose to get different variations, look at the different stampings, machining, etc. I hope they will increase in value, but they are my "toys" and give me much pleasure to hold, look at, shoot, and think about where they have been, who owned them, etc. Make it a hobby and not a job unless you are a dealer. You will gain much pleasure from them. This is just my thoughts on this subject, and I appreciate other opinions.


Marvin

[John Sabato]

[RANT Mode ON] MK - Just take a look at the hit counter in the frame to your left. This forum was formerly hosted on a server in Taiwan prior to the 1st of February of this year. It is over 3 years old. I am just one of many of the senior members because I have been here this long. I don't hold any position here. I am just a Luger enthusiast who is a frequent poster. I share the benefit of my Luger education that has lasted 46 years with anyone who has a Luger related question that I can answer.


This version of the forum was totally private to the Board of Directors for testing for ten days before it went live on February 1st. Even counting those ten private days the math says that each of us "30" guys would have had to hit the main page at least 350 times a day to rack up that many hits! My posts here have included a few photos here that are hosted on Photopoint.com The only photos I have there are Luger related. My personal album at photopoint says that my photos have received over 250 hits! That doesn't sound like 30 guys to me.


You can count on there being a lot of folks interested in Lugers that just lurk on this website to learn and never post anything. And as far as the "30" guys, that is just the 30 guys who have decided to post their profile. No registration is required to post on this forum...that is a personal choice... I notice that you haven't.


Even some of the more frequent posters to the Luger Forum have not posted their profile.


This website's primary purpose is the share knowledge about the Luger Pistol and it's history. You, and all others are welcome here, whether as a lurker, as an interested party, as a collector, or even just as someone who has an interest in the knowledge of the Luger pistol and can't afford to buy one.


I have studied the variations of this pistol since 1955 when I was first allowed to hold the one my Dad brought back from WW2. In all those years I only own two and I have had those for over 30 years, but I love them all from the clunkers to the engraved presentation models because they are one of the finest examples of classic design and engineering I have ever seen, and secondly, because they carry so much of the world's history that they are hard to ignore unless you are an anti-gun person.


If you haven't watched the History Channel Special called:


Tales of the Gun: The Luger


I suggest you hit their website or call them and ask them when it will be re-broadcast. Better yet, order the tape. If you like Lugers, you will watch it again and again.


Once again, welcome. No question is unwelcome here unless it's sole intent is to incense the folks who spend time here.

[RANT Mode OFF]


I guess this was more like a nickle's worth than just my $0.02...Sorry if I got carried away.


You truely ARE welcome here, and your opinion counts as much as any other poster on the Luger Forum. Come back often and learn and share what you have learned.


regards,


John Sabato

[Ted]

We have a great bunch of posters and friends here! I sure am glad to be a part of it! I have met some really nice people and traded a LOT of knowledge and opinions! The one thing that has been absent for the most part is confrontial posts which is all the good for everybody! Ted

[Frank]

I totally agree with you John. Anyone can express their opinion here. It's just that some people are more tactful than others. Now John, that's my $0.02 worth (note my brevity)

[John Sabato]

[bill m]

Mike, Total Luger production was well over 2 million Lugers, so you should be able to find a decent one once in awhile. True collector grade Lugers are drying up and are becoming very hard to find. The prices of true collector grade Lugers had increased drastically over the last 25 years. Your statement is no true about the values. A collector grade Mauser was worth $300 in 1975 and that same gun is worth over $1000 today easily. Lugers with two matching magazines sold for perhaps $400 or $500 in 1975 and that same gun will bring over $2000 easily today. The same with the holsters. One of the biggest problems with Luger prices is the fact that a lot of collectors have overpaid for their Luger and think that in a 2 or 3 year span that they should be able to make a huge profit on it, which doesn't happen. When you pay $1200 for a refinished gun and expect to sell it for $1400, and someone offers you $600 for it, you get depressed. Sounds like this has happened to you, possibly. --- bill

[BILL]

To the starter of this thread, MK..I have often had to say this to my friends, family and acquaitances regarding collecting Lugers.."If you don't get it, there is no way I can explain it to you". (Similar to riding a Harley).

[Frank]

[Dok]

Where have you been Frank????

[Dok]

The Harley and The Luger share much in common...

They both;

are the finest examples of their respective types

have been with us since before 1908 (Harley 1904)

require lots of maintenance and love

saw service in the two world wars

have many variations

are true collectibles

are recognizable even by non-affectionados


and lastly...


nothing can compare to owning one or using one!!!! And as Bill so eloquently put it... If you don't get, I can't explain it!


Dok (Luger and Harley Affectionado)

[Bob Egan]

One source of Lugers not mentioned was the imports of the late 50s to early to mid 60s.I remember Interarms and Ye Old Hunter always had full page ads which included Swiss and early Lugers for about $30.I never could find a Luger post war.I asked in Norway,Holland, and Italy and got such violent anti-German responses back that I stopped asking.This was 1957-59.Anyway, I bet those importers brought thousands into the country.

[Matt]

Anything related to World War II is going up in value and I believe is a good investment. The Second World War is a close second to the Civil War in terms of the number of enthusiasts which is probably why Nazi-era Lugers bring more than a typical W.W. I Luger. There's just more people interested. As an example of how W.W.II memorabilia has increased in value, remember not to long ago GI field gear could be bought cheap in army surplus stores. Check the prices some of these items are bringing on Ebay. Also, I believe movies such as "Saving Private Ryan" have created a renewed interest in the War.

[MikeP]

Bought my first Luger-1910 DWM in 1968, My first Harley, 65 panhead in '73-still have both-rode Harley to work today-will attest that any Luger requires 1/100 maintenence of pre shovelheads. Have owned numbers of both.


Panheads forever-MikeP