Yet another sideplate question! (re: 1937 s42)

Jimbo · 10-13-2002, 03:07 AM

Hi all,

I have looked over a 1937 Mauser s/42 I recently purchased and I believe the sideplate is not correct to the gun. I need some help determining this.

The luger is SN# 2277u, making it a 2nd variation 1937 s/42. The sideplate is stamped outside with 77, correctly. The sideplate is stamped inside with a 22 near the center and a 3 in the upper right hand corner.

Because the 3 is in the upper right hand corner, I can't believe this is the original sideplate for this luger.

Also, I have read a post by Bill M. that the early 1937s were stamped inside with the first 2 digits of the SN. But this 1937 luger is a 2nd variation well past transition, which to me suggests it should be stamped with 23 not 22.

I am stumped on this one, but that darn 3 in the upper corner strikes me as wrong, wrong, wrong, even if the 22 should prove correct for a u-block 1937 Mauser.

Is this original or not? I am certain it is not and I'm looking for confirmation of that.

Thanks for your help, as always.

PS -- Like Bill says, "don't try to justify things that are clearly incorrect". I'm trying to learn that lesson after thinking my 1939 with blank extractor and toggle axle could be correct. From what I've learned on this forum, this sideplate cannot be correct!

Johnny Peppers · 10-13-2002, 11:54 AM

I believe Bill Munis can shed some light on your question of the inside number on your Mauser sideplate. While not a scientific study, I do know that this question came up between Randall Gibson and Dr. Garrett Kinley several years ago. Between the two of them they looked at almost 100 Mauser Banners, and from these pistols determined that the change from the same first digits to one higher took place in late 1938/early 1939.
I would be interested in the significance of the 3 in the upper corner in your determination that the sideplate is wrong.

Jimbo · 10-13-2002, 03:58 PM

Hi Johnny,

Thanks for your response. I am hoping Bill knows definitively. Or else maybe some forum members can pull out their true vet-bring-back 1937s and check inside the side plates.

That stupid 3 in the corner really has me stumped. I can't explain it. I haven't heard it is Mauser practice so why would an original sideplate have it? And I don't want to try to justify something out of normal practice. Hmmmm....

sidhartha · 10-15-2002, 03:21 AM

Jimbo,

I just pulled the side plate off my 1937 S/42 vet bring back. SN#3217N. It has the 32 marked inside and what appears to be a partial 2 that is upsidedown in the middle rear of the side plate. I notice also that it is not the same size script as the 32 marking. I don't have a clue what it could mean though.

Johnny Peppers · 10-15-2002, 10:51 AM

Most probably an inspectors marking like the other letters and numbers found in various places on the Luger. Anyway, nothing to do with the serial number.

MauserLugers · 10-15-2002, 03:31 PM

Hi,
Usually 1937 S/42's have the inside side plate number (isp#) the same as the first two digits of a 4 digit serial number -- example 4428, would have 44.

If a three digit number it is usually the first digit -- example 118, would be 1.

Some are completely blank and some are even one digit lower, or one digit higher, but the usual is as mentioned above.

The 1938 S/42's are found usually found with either the first two digits or one digit higher. --- Example 4428 could be found with either 44 or 45 and be correct. Same with example 118, could be either 1 or 2, and be correct. Then there are the few totally blank examples mixed in also.

As you can see, in the 1937 and 1938 variations there are no set rules. They are a mixed up bunch. It is nice to have one that follows certain guidelines, but that is not always the case here. After 1938 almost always the inside plate number is one digit higher. Your sideplate sounds correct to me.

No idea what the 3 represents on you sideplate but believe it is as Johnny stated and nothing to do with the serial number. Sometimes you will also see an X.

Jimbo · 10-15-2002, 06:38 PM

Hi Bill,

Thank you for the lesson on sideplates. Your information is a big help in putting my mind at ease.

To think that we almost lost this forum some time back due to bickering. As a clearinghouse for information this forum is indispensible and people like you really provide an invaluable service for us that could not be bought at any price.

Thanks again,

Jim Ferreira

Jimbo · 10-15-2002, 06:42 PM

Hi Sidharta,

Sounds like your upside-down 2 mirrors the 3 on my side plate. I think that suggests that these little extraneeous marks are original.

Combined with Bill M's good info, I think we can rest assured our sideplates are original (or really really good fakes!)

Thanks for the help.

Dwight Gruber · 10-15-2002, 10:27 PM

Just to add to the information pool, my 1937 S/42 s#7245o has only a 5 stamped inside the side plate. There is no evidence that the side plate is anything other than original and proper to the gun.

--Dwight

Jimbo · 10-16-2002, 12:13 AM

Thanks Dwight,

I am curious about your original sideplate with the single digit. Is the 5 the same size and die style as the 5 stamped on the outside, or is it slightly smaller like the 3 on mine and the 2 on Sidhartas?

Dwight Gruber · 10-16-2002, 12:53 AM

Jimbo, I don't have a millimeter rule so I can't actually measure, but the 5 appears to be slightly smaller than the 2.1mm spec height for the side plate serial numbers, but slightly larger than the 1.5mm spec height for the sear bar serial#. This is visual comparison. It is the same typeface, very lightly stamped.

--Dwight

Jimbo · 10-16-2002, 02:03 AM

Hi Dwight,

Thanks for the response.

Your sideplate is interesting. I can't believe the 5 represents the last digit of the serial number. As Bill said above, sideplates observed are a variation of the first two digits (sn, or sn +1 or sn -1) or may be blank.

Your sideplate appears to be the blank variety with the 5 being some extraneous code similar to my 3 and Sidharta's 2.

The plot thickens!

minigun · 11-19-2002, 02:48 AM

Just looked at my 1937 S/42 Luger. My side plate has a "39" stamped on the back (same numbers as the first two digits of the serial number). It also has a "5" stamped sideways under the "39". The "5" looks a little smaller than the "39".

10-13-2002, 03:07 AM	#1
Jimbo User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SF CA Posts: 167 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Yet another sideplate question! (re: 1937 s42) Hi all, I have looked over a 1937 Mauser s/42 I recently purchased and I believe the sideplate is not correct to the gun. I need some help determining this. The luger is SN# 2277u, making it a 2nd variation 1937 s/42. The sideplate is stamped outside with 77, correctly. The sideplate is stamped inside with a 22 near the center and a 3 in the upper right hand corner. Because the 3 is in the upper right hand corner, I can't believe this is the original sideplate for this luger. Also, I have read a post by Bill M. that the early 1937s were stamped inside with the first 2 digits of the SN. But this 1937 luger is a 2nd variation well past transition, which to me suggests it should be stamped with 23 not 22. I am stumped on this one, but that darn 3 in the upper corner strikes me as wrong, wrong, wrong, even if the 22 should prove correct for a u-block 1937 Mauser. Is this original or not? I am certain it is not and I'm looking for confirmation of that. Thanks for your help, as always. PS -- Like Bill says, "don't try to justify things that are clearly incorrect". I'm trying to learn that lesson after thinking my 1939 with blank extractor and toggle axle could be correct. From what I've learned on this forum, this sideplate cannot be correct!

10-15-2002, 03:21 AM	#4
sidhartha User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Indiana Posts: 54 Thanks: 1 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Jimbo, I just pulled the side plate off my 1937 S/42 vet bring back. SN#3217N. It has the 32 marked inside and what appears to be a partial 2 that is upsidedown in the middle rear of the side plate. I notice also that it is not the same size script as the 32 marking. I don't have a clue what it could mean though. __________________ "A little lemon and seltzer will remove ink stains after you've been fingerprinted. " -Martha Stewart

10-13-2002, 11:54 AM	#2
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I believe Bill Munis can shed some light on your question of the inside number on your Mauser sideplate. While not a scientific study, I do know that this question came up between Randall Gibson and Dr. Garrett Kinley several years ago. Between the two of them they looked at almost 100 Mauser Banners, and from these pistols determined that the change from the same first digits to one higher took place in late 1938/early 1939. I would be interested in the significance of the 3 in the upper corner in your determination that the sideplate is wrong.

10-13-2002, 03:58 PM	#3
Jimbo User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SF CA Posts: 167 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi Johnny, Thanks for your response. I am hoping Bill knows definitively. Or else maybe some forum members can pull out their true vet-bring-back 1937s and check inside the side plates. That stupid 3 in the corner really has me stumped. I can't explain it. I haven't heard it is Mauser practice so why would an original sideplate have it? And I don't want to try to justify something out of normal practice. Hmmmm....

10-15-2002, 10:51 AM	#5
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Most probably an inspectors marking like the other letters and numbers found in various places on the Luger. Anyway, nothing to do with the serial number.

10-15-2002, 03:31 PM	#6
MauserLugers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Philipsburg, Montana 59858 Posts: 250 Thanks: 0 Thanked 8 Times in 1 Post	Hi, Usually 1937 S/42's have the inside side plate number (isp#) the same as the first two digits of a 4 digit serial number -- example 4428, would have 44. If a three digit number it is usually the first digit -- example 118, would be 1. Some are completely blank and some are even one digit lower, or one digit higher, but the usual is as mentioned above. The 1938 S/42's are found usually found with either the first two digits or one digit higher. --- Example 4428 could be found with either 44 or 45 and be correct. Same with example 118, could be either 1 or 2, and be correct. Then there are the few totally blank examples mixed in also. As you can see, in the 1937 and 1938 variations there are no set rules. They are a mixed up bunch. It is nice to have one that follows certain guidelines, but that is not always the case here. After 1938 almost always the inside plate number is one digit higher. Your sideplate sounds correct to me. No idea what the 3 represents on you sideplate but believe it is as Johnny stated and nothing to do with the serial number. Sometimes you will also see an X.

10-15-2002, 06:38 PM	#7
Jimbo User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SF CA Posts: 167 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi Bill, Thank you for the lesson on sideplates. Your information is a big help in putting my mind at ease. To think that we almost lost this forum some time back due to bickering. As a clearinghouse for information this forum is indispensible and people like you really provide an invaluable service for us that could not be bought at any price. Thanks again, Jim Ferreira

10-15-2002, 06:42 PM	#8
Jimbo User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SF CA Posts: 167 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi Sidharta, Sounds like your upside-down 2 mirrors the 3 on my side plate. I think that suggests that these little extraneeous marks are original. Combined with Bill M's good info, I think we can rest assured our sideplates are original (or really really good fakes!) Thanks for the help.

10-15-2002, 10:27 PM	#9
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,318 Times in 431 Posts	Just to add to the information pool, my 1937 S/42 s#7245o has only a 5 stamped inside the side plate. There is no evidence that the side plate is anything other than original and proper to the gun. --Dwight

10-16-2002, 12:13 AM	#10
Jimbo User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SF CA Posts: 167 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks Dwight, I am curious about your original sideplate with the single digit. Is the 5 the same size and die style as the 5 stamped on the outside, or is it slightly smaller like the 3 on mine and the 2 on Sidhartas?

10-16-2002, 12:53 AM	#11
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,318 Times in 431 Posts	Jimbo, I don't have a millimeter rule so I can't actually measure, but the 5 appears to be slightly smaller than the 2.1mm spec height for the side plate serial numbers, but slightly larger than the 1.5mm spec height for the sear bar serial#. This is visual comparison. It is the same typeface, very lightly stamped. --Dwight

10-16-2002, 02:03 AM	#12
Jimbo User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SF CA Posts: 167 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi Dwight, Thanks for the response. Your sideplate is interesting. I can't believe the 5 represents the last digit of the serial number. As Bill said above, sideplates observed are a variation of the first two digits (sn, or sn +1 or sn -1) or may be blank. Your sideplate appears to be the blank variety with the 5 being some extraneous code similar to my 3 and Sidharta's 2. The plot thickens!

11-19-2002, 02:48 AM	#13
minigun User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 424 Thanks: 15 Thanked 19 Times in 14 Posts	Just looked at my 1937 S/42 Luger. My side plate has a "39" stamped on the back (same numbers as the first two digits of the serial number). It also has a "5" stamped sideways under the "39". The "5" looks a little smaller than the "39".