Mauser Banner 42 date barrel crown

Barry Briscoe · 01-09-2004, 11:56 PM

I have a commercial Mauser Banner 42 date SN 8181 Y with the barrel crowned as in the photo below.I haven't seen any other Lugers with a barrel crown like this.The barrel looks like the original and the Luger has not been refinished.Anyone ever notice a Luger barrel crowned like this?

Thanks!

John Sabato · 01-10-2004, 01:56 AM

This is strictly my opinion but I have not seen a Luger crowned in such a manner either, and my guess would be that it has been recrowned (if it is the original barrel) or possibly relined.

Doubs · 01-10-2004, 02:27 AM

Yes, I have.... on a 1939 Luger that my father and I bought about 1956. It also had silver solder on one side that I suspect filled a damaged place.

As I recall, Pop wrote to the NRA Technical Staff and their answer was that the counter bore was likely due to damage to the muzzle... the silver solder being another indication of damage. I also believe that they mentioned it may have been a field repair but I won't swear to that. It certainly would have taken a lathe to do the work.

The Luger had some mis-matched parts so Pop had the barrel replaced with an 8" tube.

Now the interesting part. I still have the 4" barrel and I'll try to take a picture of it's muzzle tomorrow and post it here. (I also still have the Luger).

Doubs · 01-10-2004, 01:37 PM

Here's a picture of the repaired crown on a 1939 Mauser barrel. This barrel has been in the family since about 1956. The repair was obviously done professionally.... the work is excellent, IMO. Note the silver solder that I believe was used to fill a void caused by damage to the crown area.

I once owned a 1918 - 1920 Luger that had a firing pin that had been repaired using silver solder. The repair was quite nicely done.

Herb · 01-10-2004, 02:48 PM

Barry could you provide a straight-on shot of the stamping on the front of the sight block, the detail is not good enough, it might give a clue to the alteration.

Barry Briscoe · 01-10-2004, 04:36 PM

Herb,
I've been busy measuring and comparing while you posted.
Thanks!

I took a closer look at the barrel as I didn't notice any indication of silver solder.On closer inspection the barrel is about .080" shorter in length than it should be as that much is missing in forward of the front sight base.
===
My Mauser Banner 42 front sight

===
My 1908 DWM front sight

===

The barrel looks like the original to me with the EN on the front sight and the 8.83 .From what I've read some barrels were stamped with the SN and some weren't.

My Mauser Banner 42 witness and 8.83 mark

===
The Luger does not appear to have been fired much and has a little carry wear on it.

===
The pistol is also marked on the rear extension and rear toggle with an entwined RW.From what I have read this represents an inspectors mark namely R Weiss.I could not find any other information about him.

I went back and checked the info on R Weiss in "The Luger Book" and John Walter indicates that the R may stand for R(ichard?).He was a Mauser inspector from 1938-1942 and his RW mark is found on toggle-links,frames,barrels,and receivers.

Thanks for the input all!

Vlim · 01-11-2004, 09:04 AM

Could it be that the barrel was shortened slightly to meet some country's legal specs?

Doubs · 01-11-2004, 02:06 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by G. van Vlimmeren:
Could it be that the barrel was shortened slightly to meet some country's legal specs?<hr /></blockquote>IMO, no. The counter-bore is usually (always?)an indication of damage repair. The crown may have been harmed in some fashion or the rifling may have been damaged.

If the barrel had been shortened to meet a length requirement, there would have been no need to counter-bore the rifling as deeply as was done.

01-09-2004, 11:56 PM	#1
Barry Briscoe User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 29 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Mauser Banner 42 date barrel crown I have a commercial Mauser Banner 42 date SN 8181 Y with the barrel crowned as in the photo below.I haven't seen any other Lugers with a barrel crown like this.The barrel looks like the original and the Luger has not been refinished.Anyone ever notice a Luger barrel crowned like this? Thanks!

01-10-2004, 01:56 AM	#2
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	This is strictly my opinion but I have not seen a Luger crowned in such a manner either, and my guess would be that it has been recrowned (if it is the original barrel) or possibly relined. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

01-10-2004, 02:48 PM	#5
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Barry could you provide a straight-on shot of the stamping on the front of the sight block, the detail is not good enough, it might give a clue to the alteration. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

01-11-2004, 02:06 PM	#8
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,698 Thanks: 792 Thanked 1,687 Times in 554 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by G. van Vlimmeren: <strong>Could it be that the barrel was shortened slightly to meet some country's legal specs?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">IMO, no. The counter-bore is usually (always?)an indication of damage repair. The crown may have been harmed in some fashion or the rifling may have been damaged. If the barrel had been shortened to meet a length requirement, there would have been no need to counter-bore the rifling as deeply as was done.

01-10-2004, 02:27 AM	#3
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,698 Thanks: 792 Thanked 1,687 Times in 554 Posts	Yes, I have.... on a 1939 Luger that my father and I bought about 1956. It also had silver solder on one side that I suspect filled a damaged place. As I recall, Pop wrote to the NRA Technical Staff and their answer was that the counter bore was likely due to damage to the muzzle... the silver solder being another indication of damage. I also believe that they mentioned it may have been a field repair but I won't swear to that. It certainly would have taken a lathe to do the work. The Luger had some mis-matched parts so Pop had the barrel replaced with an 8" tube. Now the interesting part. I still have the 4" barrel and I'll try to take a picture of it's muzzle tomorrow and post it here. (I also still have the Luger).

01-10-2004, 01:37 PM	#4
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,698 Thanks: 792 Thanked 1,687 Times in 554 Posts	Here's a picture of the repaired crown on a 1939 Mauser barrel. This barrel has been in the family since about 1956. The repair was obviously done professionally.... the work is excellent, IMO. Note the silver solder that I believe was used to fill a void caused by damage to the crown area. I once owned a 1918 - 1920 Luger that had a firing pin that had been repaired using silver solder. The repair was quite nicely done.

01-10-2004, 04:36 PM	#6
Barry Briscoe User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 29 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Herb, I've been busy measuring and comparing while you posted. Thanks! I took a closer look at the barrel as I didn't notice any indication of silver solder.On closer inspection the barrel is about .080" shorter in length than it should be as that much is missing in forward of the front sight base. === My Mauser Banner 42 front sight === My 1908 DWM front sight === The barrel looks like the original to me with the EN on the front sight and the 8.83 .From what I've read some barrels were stamped with the SN and some weren't. My Mauser Banner 42 witness and 8.83 mark === The Luger does not appear to have been fired much and has a little carry wear on it. === The pistol is also marked on the rear extension and rear toggle with an entwined RW.From what I have read this represents an inspectors mark namely R Weiss.I could not find any other information about him. I went back and checked the info on R Weiss in "The Luger Book" and John Walter indicates that the R may stand for R(ichard?).He was a Mauser inspector from 1938-1942 and his RW mark is found on toggle-links,frames,barrels,and receivers. Thanks for the input all!

01-11-2004, 09:04 AM	#7
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	Could it be that the barrel was shortened slightly to meet some country's legal specs?