po8 Commercial

[nein11]

I have a .30 luger,98% marked wooden mag "germany"
all matching BUT the toggle has the "ERFURT" on it.
What is this variation worth?Is there any difference from other .30 lugers.

P.S. I have 18 others,one an s/42 1942 unfired,in new condition with GI bring back papers,holster etc.

[Roadkill]

Welcome, sounds like a post WWI Weimar assembly in .30 as required by the Versailles Treaty made up with remaining parts, Erfurt being the toggle. Lots of variations in that era,really would like to see some photos of the S42 though.
[img]biggrin.gif[/img]

RK

[nein11]

I noticed that the upper frame had a notch at the front.Well,looking at my artillery PO8 there is the same notch!
As far as the S/42,1942 it has walnut grips that are sharp,condition is 100%.
I bought it from a mechanic in 1972 that was in WW2 and found it at an arsenal that he had fought to take from a rear guard of German troops.
As a collector,I have also bought a browning WW2 hi power waffen proofed with capture papers and an MP40/BNZ41 taken off the wall of the Military muesem in Virginia (98%)and an STG44 late production 4/45.

My take on quality is the pre-1942 lugers,esp.1906-1938 are so much better made in fit and finish.Just my 2 cents

[Dwight Gruber]

Could be that more than the toggle is from Erfurt. Is it not the case that most Erfurts were manufactured with the Artillery sight notch, having something to do with the War Department directives that Erfurt followed slavishly and DWM ignored at their pleasure?

--Dwight

[Lugerdoc]

I'm of the opinion that Erfurt had a lot of "notched" receivers left over from their initial run of Artilleries in 1914, and used them up at random on their later military PO8 production. Tom H.

[Doubs]

[quote]Originally posted by Lugerdoc:
<strong>I'm of the opinion that Erfurt had a lot of "notched" receivers left over from their initial run of Artilleries in 1914, and used them up at random on their later military PO8 production. Tom H.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Tom, the answer is found in Jan Still's book "Imperial Lugers". In late (Nov, IIRC) 1916, a directive went out to Erfurt (not sure about DWM) to manufacture all new Luger receivers with the notch for the Artillery barrel rear sight. Exactly what they had in mind is not clear.... possibly another run of Artillery Lugers or possible future rebarreling of existing guns. A few 1916 Erfurts will be found to have the notch and it's fairly common on the 1917 and 1918 dated Erfurts. Not all Erfurt Lugers produced after the directive, however, are notched and many 1917/1918 models will be found to have the standard receiver. For whatever reason, DWM didn't participate in the production of notched receivers except for their needs to produce the Artillery model. IOW, standard barrel model DWM Lugers in 1917/1918 will not have the notch.

I have an Erfurt "Commercial" .30 Luger exactly as described by nein11. All numbers match except the mag and the barrel which is not numbered. The date has been ground off of the receiver which is notched. From the machine marks, I judge it to be a 1917 or 1918 but can't say that for certain. I'll try to post a picture later this evening.

[Doubs]

Guess I can't post pictures on this part of the forum. Sorry.

[wterrell]

Doubs, you can post pictures anywhere.


--------------------THE-------------------
--GREATEST AMERICAN WHO EVER LIVED--

[Doubs]

I have no idea why my previous attempt to post on this thread didn't give me the option of adding an image but it didn't.

Anyway, here's two pics of my "Commercial" .30 Erfurt Luger.

[drbuster]

Just a note to muddy the waters, I own a late 1914 (q block) Erfurt, all matching serials, and a DWM Anshutz BOTH with notched receivers!

[Doubs]

[quote]Originally posted by Herbert M. Fisher:
<strong>Just a note to muddy the waters, I own a late 1914 (q block) Erfurt, all matching serials, and a DWM Anshutz BOTH with notched receivers! </strong><hr></blockquote>

The majority of Erfurts dated 1914 were made as Artillery models. Yours would seem to have been converted from a true Artillery Erfurt. My GUESS would be that the DWM also began life as a true Artillery model as there's no evidence I'm aware of that DWM ever followed the Nov., 1916 directive to make all new receivers with the notch.

[Roadkill]

Alright, I give up. Been studying this off & on all morning. Where is the notch?

RK

[Garfield]

RK:

On the top of the receiver where it meets the barrel.

[Thor]

RK, it is there on Artillery models to allow clearance of the rear sight! Late year Erfurts made all their receivers to take this sight even though most ended up as standard 4" models with standard fixed sights. It was done this way for standardization. You picked up slotted receiver and you could make an Artillery or Standard model from the same receiver.

[Roadkill]

Thanks! <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />

RK

[Doubs]

While I agree with most of what Thor said regarding the late (post Nov., 1916) Erfurt receivers, not all of them were notched. I have seen 1917 and 1918 Erfurt receivers without the notch and, in fact, own a 1917 that is not.

[Thor]

Doubs, Jan Still confirms what you said about the cutout, "many (not all) have the tangent sight relief cut in the receiver..." Thanks for pointing that out! <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

[Johnny Peppers]

I don't believe 1914 Erfurt production got past the b suffix block. Would either the 1914 or q be a typo?

[Heinz]

Wes, The Greatest American Who Ever Lived Photo. . Jim Bridger? But why not Jediah Strong Smith, Joe Meek or my personal favorite, John Wesley Hardin.

[wterrell]

Heinz,

The reason that I believe that Jim Bridger is the greatest American that ever lived is as follows:

1. He lived the life of the public imagination through many generations. He went to the fur trade frontier when every youth dreamed of becoming a mountain man, and he became comtemporarily famous in that roll and eventually owned the famous fur company to which he was employed as a youth.

2. He discovered the South Pass to the Continental Divide now know as Bridger's Pass in Southern Wyoming.

3. He was one of the discoverers of the Yellowstone Basin.

4. He established a trading post on the Oregon Trail whenever the trail was the fantasy for all Americans of establishing a new prosperous life. His store was a vital landmark on the contemporary Oregon Trail.

5. The government bought his trading post and established Fort Bridger, Wyoming.

6. He became a very famous Indian scout for the Army during the removal of the tribes from the Great Plains. All of America was caught up in the excitement of the Indian wars. Bridger was preferred and requested by the commanders as scout for the Army over any other scout including Kit Carson. He guided more wagon trains than all other scouts put together on the westward trek.

7. Whenever the railroads were to connect the nation by laying track over the West, Bridger was hired to help the Union Pacific map a route through the Bighorn Mountains.

8. And he spoke not only English, French and Spanish, but six Indian tongues as well. And he was a chief of five Indian tribes.

9. He was famous in his own day for living the glamor of the American frontier and rode the tidal wave of advancing civilization! And lived a long life and died in peace in his old age.

10. A national park was named in honor of him Bridger Nat'l Forest.

11. There are twenty places named for Jim Bridger.

To be the equivalent today a man would have to be a western-cowboy movie star, then a rock and roll singer, then an astronaut, then president, & then the founder of Microsoft.

Jediah Strong Smith, Joe Meek, and John Wesley Hardin were single event men, and not multi-dimensional.