Barrel Identification

Greg · 06-11-2002, 08:37 AM

Is it possible to determine, or have an educated guess, about who may have installed the 8" barrel on my 1920 era Luger? As I posted elsewhere, it is a 1916 DWM refitted with a .30 cal. barrel for export. The only marking on the barrel is the last three digits of the original serial number, and you can tell that the blueing on it certainly isn't on par with the original.

Edward Tinker · 06-11-2002, 02:49 PM

Greg, unless there are proofing or import marks, it is very hard to judge where the barrel came from. Barrels in many sizes have been made through out the world, so unless there are some German markings, I think it is anyones guess?

Unless there is some distingueshing marks on it, or if a certain maker always put the last 3 digits on the barrel and some of my colegues, calleuges, uh, friends on the forum can help, [img]wink.gif[/img]

Johnny Peppers · 06-11-2002, 03:04 PM

Greg,
I would have to agree with Ed, as Pacific Arms started this right after WWI on surplus military Lugers, and it has not slacked up since that time.

John Sabato · 06-11-2002, 04:11 PM

I concur with my friends (& colleagues [img]biggrin.gif[/img] ) Ed Tinker and Johnny Peppers that the barrel can have any origin...

Greg · 06-11-2002, 06:13 PM

Thank you gentlemen!!! <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Kyrie · 06-11-2002, 09:16 PM

Hi Greg,

In the OwnersÃ¢?? Corner, in the folders marked Kyrie, take a look at the barrel numbers of the 1923 Commercial and the 1920 Commercial Artillery (in the Artilleries folder). Both of these pistols have three digit numbers on the barrel - the Artillery number matches the frame serial and the 1923 Commercial barrel number does not.

That these barrels are devoid of any other markings, and especially proof marks, is a argument that they were installed here in the US. OTOH, they could have been installed in Germany and not proofed since if they werenÃ¢??t intended for sale in Germany then German proof law would not apply.

We have more questions than answers as to when, where, by whom, and why these barrels were installed. The only thing we can say is the barrel on your Luger is not unique - there are two more just like it in the OwnersÃ¢?? Corner. Note also the 1916 Erfurt, also under Kyrie in the OwnersÃ¢?? Corner. This one also has a 7,65 mm barrel, but is completely unmarked. It may or may not be another example.

ArenÃ¢??t 1920 Commercials fun? ;-)

Warm regards,

Kyrie
Moderator - Cruffler_Forum on Yahoo Groups
"The flame free C&R Forum."

Greg · 06-12-2002, 08:18 AM

Hi Kyrie,

Thanks for the info....with regard to your "long barreled" Lugers you referenced in the Owner's Corner,is there a distinct difference in the quality of the blueing of the barrels in comparison to the original blue on the frames? And, yes, the 1920 era Lugers are fascinating in their own right! <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Kyrie · 06-12-2002, 06:46 PM

Hi Greg,

Regarding the barrel blue versus the frame blue, yes sir sometimes there is quite a difference - and sometimes not. The blue on the barrel of the 1920 Commercial Artillery is mostly just gone, but the Frame blue is still fairly nice. OTOH, the blue on the 1923 Commercial is nicely uniform, and nice.

Warm regards,

Kyrie
Moderator - Cruffler_Forum on Yahoo Groups
"The flame free C&R Forum."

Orv Reichert · 06-13-2002, 02:22 PM

I was told, years back, that the barrels longer than 97mm were shipped separately from the guns in order to conform to the law in effect at that time. The were [reportedly] then assembled here by the importers to guns shipped here with no barrels installed. The barrel were usually stamped 'Germany' but not numbered.

Again, Gentlemen, this is unconfirmed info.

Orv Reichert

06-11-2002, 08:37 AM	#1
Greg User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southern U.S. Posts: 181 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Barrel Identification Is it possible to determine, or have an educated guess, about who may have installed the 8" barrel on my 1920 era Luger? As I posted elsewhere, it is a 1916 DWM refitted with a .30 cal. barrel for export. The only marking on the barrel is the last three digits of the original serial number, and you can tell that the blueing on it certainly isn't on par with the original.

06-11-2002, 02:49 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	Greg, unless there are proofing or import marks, it is very hard to judge where the barrel came from. Barrels in many sizes have been made through out the world, so unless there are some German markings, I think it is anyones guess? Unless there is some distingueshing marks on it, or if a certain maker always put the last 3 digits on the barrel and some of my colegues, calleuges, uh, friends on the forum can help, [img]wink.gif[/img] __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

06-11-2002, 04:11 PM	#4
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	I concur with my friends (& colleagues [img]biggrin.gif[/img] ) Ed Tinker and Johnny Peppers that the barrel can have any origin... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

06-13-2002, 02:22 PM	#9
Orv Reichert RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SW Washington State Posts: 339 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I was told, years back, that the barrels longer than 97mm were shipped separately from the guns in order to conform to the law in effect at that time. The were [reportedly] then assembled here by the importers to guns shipped here with no barrels installed. The barrel were usually stamped 'Germany' but not numbered. Again, Gentlemen, this is unconfirmed info. Orv Reichert __________________ ORVEL L. "ORV" REICHERT

06-11-2002, 03:04 PM	#3
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Greg, I would have to agree with Ed, as Pacific Arms started this right after WWI on surplus military Lugers, and it has not slacked up since that time.

06-11-2002, 06:13 PM	#5
Greg User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southern U.S. Posts: 181 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Thank you gentlemen!!! <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

06-11-2002, 09:16 PM	#6
Kyrie User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 757 Thanks: 0 Thanked 212 Times in 101 Posts	Hi Greg, In the OwnersÃ¢?? Corner, in the folders marked Kyrie, take a look at the barrel numbers of the 1923 Commercial and the 1920 Commercial Artillery (in the Artilleries folder). Both of these pistols have three digit numbers on the barrel - the Artillery number matches the frame serial and the 1923 Commercial barrel number does not. That these barrels are devoid of any other markings, and especially proof marks, is a argument that they were installed here in the US. OTOH, they could have been installed in Germany and not proofed since if they werenÃ¢??t intended for sale in Germany then German proof law would not apply. We have more questions than answers as to when, where, by whom, and why these barrels were installed. The only thing we can say is the barrel on your Luger is not unique - there are two more just like it in the OwnersÃ¢?? Corner. Note also the 1916 Erfurt, also under Kyrie in the OwnersÃ¢?? Corner. This one also has a 7,65 mm barrel, but is completely unmarked. It may or may not be another example. ArenÃ¢??t 1920 Commercials fun? ;-) Warm regards, Kyrie Moderator - Cruffler_Forum on Yahoo Groups "The flame free C&R Forum."

06-12-2002, 08:18 AM	#7
Greg User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southern U.S. Posts: 181 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Hi Kyrie, Thanks for the info....with regard to your "long barreled" Lugers you referenced in the Owner's Corner,is there a distinct difference in the quality of the blueing of the barrels in comparison to the original blue on the frames? And, yes, the 1920 era Lugers are fascinating in their own right! <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

06-12-2002, 06:46 PM	#8
Kyrie User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 757 Thanks: 0 Thanked 212 Times in 101 Posts	Hi Greg, Regarding the barrel blue versus the frame blue, yes sir sometimes there is quite a difference - and sometimes not. The blue on the barrel of the 1920 Commercial Artillery is mostly just gone, but the Frame blue is still fairly nice. OTOH, the blue on the 1923 Commercial is nicely uniform, and nice. Warm regards, Kyrie Moderator - Cruffler_Forum on Yahoo Groups "The flame free C&R Forum."