Interesting 1917 Artillery Full Rig

Big Norm · 04-22-2003, 03:28 PM

There is an interesting 1917 artillery full rig on Auction Arms.

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/di...temNum=4216153

The Luger looks pretty good. Nice bore. Strawing that looks like it has not been messed with. Apparent matching numbers except for the mismatched magazines. Good looking grips and so forth.

So what has me worried? The leather is obviously repro. All repro holsters with all the attaching leather always seem to come with a repro stock. This stock looks too good. But it has the attaching iron properly numbered and the wood has the proof mark on it. Could it be that somebody has created an inspection stamp that could be used on a repro stock? Could this be another example of our hobby being bastardized for a quick buck?
Big Norm <img border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" title="" src="graemlins/cussing.gif" />

lugerholsterrepair · 04-22-2003, 09:05 PM

Big Norm, I agree with all you say. The pistol looks good, a little rough on the chamber area.

The stock looks good and it dosen't. I don't like the blueing on the stock iron. There is not one dent in the stock other than the Crown/letter stamp. This isn't right. The color is really light, has no real patina. I could see little of the wood to metal fit around the stock iron but it looked too good to be a repro. Really hard to tell without a hands on inspection. Jerry Burney

Lonnie Zimmerman · 04-23-2003, 12:32 AM

I saw Nazi metal stamps for sale in the last Shotgun News, so I am sure there are lots of different kinds out there.
Lonnie

Big Norm · 04-23-2003, 12:40 AM

Jerry,
the rig is currently going for almost $2800 and there is still time for it to fly some more. All the original stocks that I have have a darkening aging on the wood and some dings on the top of the iron from people pounding on it to get it off of the gun. The wood is not right and I personally think the markings are counterfeit. My two cents.

I think that someone is going to be unhappy when they get a $17-1800 Luger with maybe a $200-300 repro stock and holster.

Well Jerry, you and I did our duty to inform. These people are over 21.
Big Norm

Big Norm · 04-23-2003, 01:03 AM

Lonnie,
the NAPCA often tells people of "cottage industry" people in Europe who sell punches that imitate Luger markings. These punches are sometimes sold at gun shows. But, in reality, any decent tool and die guy can easily create these things. That is why you have to analyse, like Jerry did, other indicators like the style of wood on the stock.

I bought a shooter artillery a little while ago for $850 and, after buying the gun, the dealer threw in a repro stock and holster for free. After I repair the gun by putting in a new main spring, I'll sell that gun and rig for, maybe, $1000-1100. But the guy will know what he is buying. The moral is, when in doubt don't pay big bucks.
Big Norm

George Anderson · 04-23-2003, 08:53 AM

"Something is rotten in Denmark", or rather Finland. That stock was not issued with that pistol. The stock looks just like a finnish 1930's job I just bought. Even had the iron been covered securly by the "boot" for eighty years, it would not look like that.

Big Norm · 04-24-2003, 12:59 AM

George,
I don't know about a 1930 Finnish stock, but I would swear that this looks more like a 1990's IMA-USA.com stock out of GunList magazine. That would just about match the holsters time period.

I really feel sorry for the bidders.
Big Norm

04-22-2003, 03:28 PM	#1
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Interesting 1917 Artillery Full Rig There is an interesting 1917 artillery full rig on Auction Arms. http://www.auctionarms.com/search/di...temNum=4216153 The Luger looks pretty good. Nice bore. Strawing that looks like it has not been messed with. Apparent matching numbers except for the mismatched magazines. Good looking grips and so forth. So what has me worried? The leather is obviously repro. All repro holsters with all the attaching leather always seem to come with a repro stock. This stock looks too good. But it has the attaching iron properly numbered and the wood has the proof mark on it. Could it be that somebody has created an inspection stamp that could be used on a repro stock? Could this be another example of our hobby being bastardized for a quick buck? Big Norm <img border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" title="" src="graemlins/cussing.gif" />

04-22-2003, 09:05 PM	#2
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Big Norm, I agree with all you say. The pistol looks good, a little rough on the chamber area. The stock looks good and it dosen't. I don't like the blueing on the stock iron. There is not one dent in the stock other than the Crown/letter stamp. This isn't right. The color is really light, has no real patina. I could see little of the wood to metal fit around the stock iron but it looked too good to be a repro. Really hard to tell without a hands on inspection. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

04-23-2003, 12:32 AM	#3
Lonnie Zimmerman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 523 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I saw Nazi metal stamps for sale in the last Shotgun News, so I am sure there are lots of different kinds out there. Lonnie __________________ Lonnie Zimmerman

04-23-2003, 12:40 AM	#4
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Jerry, the rig is currently going for almost $2800 and there is still time for it to fly some more. All the original stocks that I have have a darkening aging on the wood and some dings on the top of the iron from people pounding on it to get it off of the gun. The wood is not right and I personally think the markings are counterfeit. My two cents. I think that someone is going to be unhappy when they get a $17-1800 Luger with maybe a $200-300 repro stock and holster. Well Jerry, you and I did our duty to inform. These people are over 21. Big Norm

04-23-2003, 01:03 AM	#5
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Lonnie, the NAPCA often tells people of "cottage industry" people in Europe who sell punches that imitate Luger markings. These punches are sometimes sold at gun shows. But, in reality, any decent tool and die guy can easily create these things. That is why you have to analyse, like Jerry did, other indicators like the style of wood on the stock. I bought a shooter artillery a little while ago for $850 and, after buying the gun, the dealer threw in a repro stock and holster for free. After I repair the gun by putting in a new main spring, I'll sell that gun and rig for, maybe, $1000-1100. But the guy will know what he is buying. The moral is, when in doubt don't pay big bucks. Big Norm

04-23-2003, 08:53 AM	#6
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,529 Times in 787 Posts	"Something is rotten in Denmark", or rather Finland. That stock was not issued with that pistol. The stock looks just like a finnish 1930's job I just bought. Even had the iron been covered securly by the "boot" for eighty years, it would not look like that.

04-24-2003, 12:59 AM	#7
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	George, I don't know about a 1930 Finnish stock, but I would swear that this looks more like a 1990's IMA-USA.com stock out of GunList magazine. That would just about match the holsters time period. I really feel sorry for the bidders. Big Norm