1914 DWM ARTILLERY

tnak · 03-06-2003, 02:00 AM

I am a novice Japanese militaria collector and ran across a 1914 DWM Artillery luger dated 1917. The pistol itself appears to be close to
100%. It also has a snail drum magazine, loading tool, matching spare mag, 2 spare mag pouches and the thing I am concerned with is the stock/holster. The stock/holster appear too new and I couldn't find any stamps on the wood or leather. Should there be any stamps? If everything is original, what would be a value for this gun. Thanks

Edward Tinker · 03-06-2003, 02:58 PM

I am no expert in this field, I have seen complete rigs (gun and holster) go from $1,700 - $2,500, but as a novice collector you must be very careful. Looking at Lugers, they are great to collect, but there are many fakes and fake holsters out there. Easy for an expert to ID, hard for someone like you and me. So unless you pay repro prices for the stock, I would be hesitant to jump right in. In addition, real snail drum magazines themselves go for $800 and up, about the same for loading tools. So my point is, it can get expensive fairly quickly.

Hopefully some of the experts of this type will jump in.

Welcome to the forum, I live close to your border,

Ed

tnak · 03-07-2003, 05:28 AM

Thanks for the reply Ed. I hope to learn to identify the fakes you talk about, hopefully by looking at authentic pieces and also fakes. What are fake stock and holsters worth? In my dealings with Japanese militaria, I have come across many pieces that I don't know anything about,such as lugers, and so now I am going to try and branch out a little and hope to expand my horizons. Tracy

tnak · 03-07-2003, 05:30 AM

Also, someone emailed me privately and I accidently deleted his message (too much spam) Could that someone please email me back. I would like to contact you. Tracy

Dwight Gruber · 03-07-2003, 11:03 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by tnak:
I hope to learn to identify the fakes you talk about, hopefully by looking at authentic pieces and also fakes. What are fake stock and holsters worth?<hr /></blockquote>Tracey,

In the area of Lugers, it is useful to make a distinction between "reproductions" and out-and-out fakes. Regarding accessories such as holsters and stocks, there are new reproductions out there which are not intended to decieve, but to allow a Luger owner to have a representitive accessory which they could not otherwise afford or find; or to use in place of an expensive collectible. This is more or less acceptable, depending on the procilvities of the individual collector.

This is distinct from a "fake", whose intent is to decieve a potential buyer by appearing to increase value. There is, of course, the intersection of the inexperienced or unwary collector and unscrupulous owner who might try to foist a "reproduction" off as original.

I would "ballpark" a reproduction stock/holster rig at 10%-20% the value of an authentic rig. Non-authentic drum magazines are usually non-functional decorations, or standard 8-shot magazines with reproduction drums added on--these are easy to detect, perhaps by the existence of a magazine button or by noteably light weight. I have seen these offered at gun shows for $150 or so.

A stock rig with no markings on either the holster or stock certainly sound other than original.

--Dwight

tnak · 03-07-2003, 12:35 PM

Thanks Dwight. Your information is greatly appreciated. In my case, if anything is not authentic, I would call it a fake, because the seller is representing it as being authentic. Tracy

lugerholsterrepair · 03-07-2003, 05:18 PM

Tracy, The stock should have a serial number on the top of the metal attaching piece. The wood should have a crown over letter halfway or so on the left side. Look at the wood to metal fit. If original it should be perfect. If fake it will have gaps. Also the wood on an original should look old. Darker with dents etc. New stocks are generally speaking, new oak, lighter in color with no use marks.

Holsters are studies in themselves but the same goes for them. They should look old. Stitching on a WW1 era holster will be corded linen. NOT synthetic or cotton.

If you are going to branch out into Lugers this sounds like a good start but I would recommend some good books like Luger Holsters and Accesories by Bender. Shows plenty of original stuff to compare with. Good Luck! Jerry Burney

tnak · 03-07-2003, 09:21 PM

Jerry, Thanks for the info. I am trying to soak it all in. I am now trying to build a German library and will look for the book mentioned. I am impressed with all the input everyone is giving me and I truly appreciate it. Tracy

Edward Tinker · 04-09-2003, 02:25 AM

Tracy's friend e-mailed me pictures of his new Artillery. Pictures are above:

Ed

Big Norm · 04-20-2003, 08:19 AM

tnak,
I was going to write something but lugerholsterrepair did such a good job that I decided to change what I was going to say. Jerry really knows his leather. From looking at your pictures it look like the stock is a repro. The grips look repro too. The flap over the top of the holster looks too new.
The gun looks good but hard to tell if a real pro restored it from the pictures. Some restorers are very good and its hard to tell from the pictures. One of the first things that I look at when I see a very nice Luger is the Locking Bolt. Your picture is blurry so I cant tell. But this part is a difficult part to restraw because of its size and odd shape. But very good restores have ways to get around that.
Look at the front of the frame and under the barrel and see if the serial numbers have a little metal reform around the outside of the letters. This is called the "halo" effect. When the numbers are punched on the frame and barrel, the metal reforms to give this effect. When a gun is restored, this reformation of the metal is removed in the process. Also look at the size of the numbers and compare them to a known authentic artillery Luger to see if the size is the same. There should also be some proof marks on the barrel. A replaced barrel might have the serial numbers but rarely have all the proof marks.
Run your fingers along the top of the rear toggle to see if an old rear sight has been filed off. This can sometimes require a delicate touch.
Look at the bore of the barrel. See if the wear corresponds to the general condition of the outside of the gun and the grips.
On snail drums, I cant say very much because I don't have one. But I have been told to be careful because there are some Japanese repros out there that look pretty good. I'll open the next thing up for discussion. But I think that someone told me that the Nambu uses a snail drum that looks simular to the Luger snail drum but won't work in a Luger. But take my opinion here with a grain of salt.
I personally feel that if a real pro restorer did his job and has not altered the gun in any way, then the gun is OK. But some people feel otherwise. I have seen some dealers take a restored Luger and wipe it with a leather belt on the high spots to remove the "new in box" look. Its all a matter of opinion. But even my opinion changes when you began talking about the super expensive and rare Lugers. Then mostly, I don't want a restored Luger. As far as Lugers go, a 1917 artillery Luger is not considered a super expensive, rare Luger.
Big Norm

lugerholsterrepair · 04-20-2003, 02:29 PM

Tnak, From what I can see the holster looks original and in pretty good shape.

I agree with Big Norm that the stock is not original to the set. It should be darker with age patina and have a few if not many use dents.

Big Norm gave an excellent synopsis on the pistol but I would have to agree again that the grips are questionable. I have an all original 1916 that looks just as good as this with matching magazine and the grips look similar so they could be original. Look for proof marks and serial numbers on the inside. Also wood to metal fit is a great indicator. It should be excellent. Especially around the safety area. I can't really tell because of shadow in a not very close up photo.I would give a price of $350.00 to $400.00 on your holster alone. The closure strap looks OK from what I can see and the brass washers and screws attaching it to the stock look original. The large washer holding the boot to the stock looks too new. It should be rusted to a very nice brown. Hope this helps, Jerry Burney

Aaron · 04-20-2003, 04:14 PM

A complete artillery rig topping out at $2500? That figure is much too low, as a nice oufit these days could go for almost double that amount. A few months ago I walked away from a 99% DWM artillery with no accessories at $2400, thinking I would get it knocked down a couple of hundred a bit later in the show. It sold for full price minutes after I passed on it. I'm still kicking myself.

lugerholsterrepair · 04-20-2003, 10:20 PM

Aaron, You are not clear on what you passed up for $2400.00. The pistol alone or pistol with stock and holster? Thanks, Jerry Burney

Aaron · 04-21-2003, 04:30 AM

Sorry if I wasn't clear, but I did say "with no accessories," meaning the pistol alone. It was a 99% DWM 1917, and in that condition I realize now it was worth the $2400 even if it was a common artillery.

Edward Tinker · 04-21-2003, 04:47 AM

A while back I passed on (was slow) on a nice police that Pete pointed me in the right direction, and wished I'd been faster. Live and learn, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Ed

lugerholsterrepair · 04-21-2003, 06:12 PM

Aaron, Thanks for the clarification. I know you said no accesories but $2400 for a 1917 seems pretty steep. I bought a 1916 , in 95% condition with original matching mag at the Yuma gun show two months ago. I know it was a steal but I guess it's all in where you sell and to whom. Jerry Burney

Aaron · 04-21-2003, 11:35 PM

Jerry, when I saw you at Yuma you were mum about your new artillery. How the heck did you beat me to it?

lugerholsterrepair · 04-22-2003, 12:37 AM

Aaron, I know the dealer as he is a local. He knows I like Lugers and snagged me as I came by. He thought it would be a quick sale. It was. Jerry Burney

Big Norm · 04-22-2003, 06:34 AM

Gosh,
I am glad that I got all my artilleries when I did. These prices for 1916 and 1917's are really going up fast. A year and a half ago I picked up a 1915 with matching stock and mag for $1900. A little while later I picked up an Erfurt also with matching mag and stock for $2200. No leather on either. Condition was good but not mint. No pitting on either. Lots of money, I thought. But they are looking better every day.
I am convinced that if you buy good lugers they are definately, at worst, a great preservation of capital investment and, at best, a great investment. A few years ago I came across a chamber dated 1914 DWM artillery with a matching mag for $3500. It was my birthday so I said to myself, "do it!". A week after that, a second one came up for $3400. It also had a matching mag and was also in good shape. I thought,"trade bait" and I took it. So being the big mouth that I am, I started bragging about my extravagance. Some guy heard me yaking and he said that he had one for $1500. I looked at it and saw that it was a nice Weimar reblue with repro grips and no mag but, otherwise, in good shape. Like the dummy that I am, I took it. Afterward, I couldn't help but ask myself where my head was on all these guns. It seemed like I got carried away. But now I am looking at the current blue book and see that a chamber dated 1914 DWM artillery is worth 200% the price of a comparable DWM from other years. My stupidity is beginning to look not so stupid.
Big Norm

tnak · 04-28-2003, 01:52 AM

Hey, thanks for the response and for posting the pic's for me. I have shown the piece around locally with some knowledgable ? collectors and they all seem to have a different opinion. I have not yet taken the grips off yet, but I believe they are original. The snail drum and loading tool are ok in everyone's opinion. The holster and straps are ok but the metal lug on the stock is questionable. They all think the stock itself is ok though. It came with two matching mags and two leather pouches. I will inspect this gun with a fine tooth comb soon and if anyone is interested, can post specific pics if Edward will so oblige. Thanks again for all your help.

03-06-2003, 02:00 AM	#1
tnak User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: idaho Posts: 28 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	1914 DWM ARTILLERY I am a novice Japanese militaria collector and ran across a 1914 DWM Artillery luger dated 1917. The pistol itself appears to be close to 100%. It also has a snail drum magazine, loading tool, matching spare mag, 2 spare mag pouches and the thing I am concerned with is the stock/holster. The stock/holster appear too new and I couldn't find any stamps on the wood or leather. Should there be any stamps? If everything is original, what would be a value for this gun. Thanks

03-06-2003, 02:58 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	I am no expert in this field, I have seen complete rigs (gun and holster) go from $1,700 - $2,500, but as a novice collector you must be very careful. Looking at Lugers, they are great to collect, but there are many fakes and fake holsters out there. Easy for an expert to ID, hard for someone like you and me. So unless you pay repro prices for the stock, I would be hesitant to jump right in. In addition, real snail drum magazines themselves go for $800 and up, about the same for loading tools. So my point is, it can get expensive fairly quickly. Hopefully some of the experts of this type will jump in. Welcome to the forum, I live close to your border, Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

03-07-2003, 11:03 AM	#5
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,318 Times in 431 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by tnak: <strong>I hope to learn to identify the fakes you talk about, hopefully by looking at authentic pieces and also fakes. What are fake stock and holsters worth?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Tracey, In the area of Lugers, it is useful to make a distinction between "reproductions" and out-and-out fakes. Regarding accessories such as holsters and stocks, there are new reproductions out there which are not intended to decieve, but to allow a Luger owner to have a representitive accessory which they could not otherwise afford or find; or to use in place of an expensive collectible. This is more or less acceptable, depending on the procilvities of the individual collector. This is distinct from a "fake", whose intent is to decieve a potential buyer by appearing to increase value. There is, of course, the intersection of the inexperienced or unwary collector and unscrupulous owner who might try to foist a "reproduction" off as original. I would "ballpark" a reproduction stock/holster rig at 10%-20% the value of an authentic rig. Non-authentic drum magazines are usually non-functional decorations, or standard 8-shot magazines with reproduction drums added on--these are easy to detect, perhaps by the existence of a magazine button or by noteably light weight. I have seen these offered at gun shows for $150 or so. A stock rig with no markings on either the holster or stock certainly sound other than original. --Dwight

03-07-2003, 05:18 PM	#7
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Tracy, The stock should have a serial number on the top of the metal attaching piece. The wood should have a crown over letter halfway or so on the left side. Look at the wood to metal fit. If original it should be perfect. If fake it will have gaps. Also the wood on an original should look old. Darker with dents etc. New stocks are generally speaking, new oak, lighter in color with no use marks. Holsters are studies in themselves but the same goes for them. They should look old. Stitching on a WW1 era holster will be corded linen. NOT synthetic or cotton. If you are going to branch out into Lugers this sounds like a good start but I would recommend some good books like Luger Holsters and Accesories by Bender. Shows plenty of original stuff to compare with. Good Luck! Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

04-09-2003, 02:25 AM	#9
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	Tracy's friend e-mailed me pictures of his new Artillery. Pictures are above: Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

03-07-2003, 05:28 AM	#3
tnak User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: idaho Posts: 28 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the reply Ed. I hope to learn to identify the fakes you talk about, hopefully by looking at authentic pieces and also fakes. What are fake stock and holsters worth? In my dealings with Japanese militaria, I have come across many pieces that I don't know anything about,such as lugers, and so now I am going to try and branch out a little and hope to expand my horizons. Tracy

03-07-2003, 05:30 AM	#4
tnak User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: idaho Posts: 28 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Also, someone emailed me privately and I accidently deleted his message (too much spam) Could that someone please email me back. I would like to contact you. Tracy

03-07-2003, 12:35 PM	#6
tnak User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: idaho Posts: 28 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks Dwight. Your information is greatly appreciated. In my case, if anything is not authentic, I would call it a fake, because the seller is representing it as being authentic. Tracy

03-07-2003, 09:21 PM	#8
tnak User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: idaho Posts: 28 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Jerry, Thanks for the info. I am trying to soak it all in. I am now trying to build a German library and will look for the book mentioned. I am impressed with all the input everyone is giving me and I truly appreciate it. Tracy

04-20-2003, 08:19 AM	#10
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	tnak, I was going to write something but lugerholsterrepair did such a good job that I decided to change what I was going to say. Jerry really knows his leather. From looking at your pictures it look like the stock is a repro. The grips look repro too. The flap over the top of the holster looks too new. The gun looks good but hard to tell if a real pro restored it from the pictures. Some restorers are very good and its hard to tell from the pictures. One of the first things that I look at when I see a very nice Luger is the Locking Bolt. Your picture is blurry so I cant tell. But this part is a difficult part to restraw because of its size and odd shape. But very good restores have ways to get around that. Look at the front of the frame and under the barrel and see if the serial numbers have a little metal reform around the outside of the letters. This is called the "halo" effect. When the numbers are punched on the frame and barrel, the metal reforms to give this effect. When a gun is restored, this reformation of the metal is removed in the process. Also look at the size of the numbers and compare them to a known authentic artillery Luger to see if the size is the same. There should also be some proof marks on the barrel. A replaced barrel might have the serial numbers but rarely have all the proof marks. Run your fingers along the top of the rear toggle to see if an old rear sight has been filed off. This can sometimes require a delicate touch. Look at the bore of the barrel. See if the wear corresponds to the general condition of the outside of the gun and the grips. On snail drums, I cant say very much because I don't have one. But I have been told to be careful because there are some Japanese repros out there that look pretty good. I'll open the next thing up for discussion. But I think that someone told me that the Nambu uses a snail drum that looks simular to the Luger snail drum but won't work in a Luger. But take my opinion here with a grain of salt. I personally feel that if a real pro restorer did his job and has not altered the gun in any way, then the gun is OK. But some people feel otherwise. I have seen some dealers take a restored Luger and wipe it with a leather belt on the high spots to remove the "new in box" look. Its all a matter of opinion. But even my opinion changes when you began talking about the super expensive and rare Lugers. Then mostly, I don't want a restored Luger. As far as Lugers go, a 1917 artillery Luger is not considered a super expensive, rare Luger. Big Norm

04-20-2003, 02:29 PM	#11
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Tnak, From what I can see the holster looks original and in pretty good shape. I agree with Big Norm that the stock is not original to the set. It should be darker with age patina and have a few if not many use dents. Big Norm gave an excellent synopsis on the pistol but I would have to agree again that the grips are questionable. I have an all original 1916 that looks just as good as this with matching magazine and the grips look similar so they could be original. Look for proof marks and serial numbers on the inside. Also wood to metal fit is a great indicator. It should be excellent. Especially around the safety area. I can't really tell because of shadow in a not very close up photo.I would give a price of $350.00 to $400.00 on your holster alone. The closure strap looks OK from what I can see and the brass washers and screws attaching it to the stock look original. The large washer holding the boot to the stock looks too new. It should be rusted to a very nice brown. Hope this helps, Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

04-20-2003, 04:14 PM	#12
Aaron Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,008 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	A complete artillery rig topping out at $2500? That figure is much too low, as a nice oufit these days could go for almost double that amount. A few months ago I walked away from a 99% DWM artillery with no accessories at $2400, thinking I would get it knocked down a couple of hundred a bit later in the show. It sold for full price minutes after I passed on it. I'm still kicking myself.

04-20-2003, 10:20 PM	#13
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Aaron, You are not clear on what you passed up for $2400.00. The pistol alone or pistol with stock and holster? Thanks, Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

04-21-2003, 04:30 AM	#14
Aaron Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,008 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	Sorry if I wasn't clear, but I did say "with no accessories," meaning the pistol alone. It was a 99% DWM 1917, and in that condition I realize now it was worth the $2400 even if it was a common artillery.

04-21-2003, 04:47 AM	#15
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	A while back I passed on (was slow) on a nice police that Pete pointed me in the right direction, and wished I'd been faster. Live and learn, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

04-21-2003, 06:12 PM	#16
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Aaron, Thanks for the clarification. I know you said no accesories but $2400 for a 1917 seems pretty steep. I bought a 1916 , in 95% condition with original matching mag at the Yuma gun show two months ago. I know it was a steal but I guess it's all in where you sell and to whom. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

04-21-2003, 11:35 PM	#17
Aaron Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,008 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	Jerry, when I saw you at Yuma you were mum about your new artillery. How the heck did you beat me to it?

04-22-2003, 12:37 AM	#18
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Aaron, I know the dealer as he is a local. He knows I like Lugers and snagged me as I came by. He thought it would be a quick sale. It was. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

04-22-2003, 06:34 AM	#19
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Gosh, I am glad that I got all my artilleries when I did. These prices for 1916 and 1917's are really going up fast. A year and a half ago I picked up a 1915 with matching stock and mag for $1900. A little while later I picked up an Erfurt also with matching mag and stock for $2200. No leather on either. Condition was good but not mint. No pitting on either. Lots of money, I thought. But they are looking better every day. I am convinced that if you buy good lugers they are definately, at worst, a great preservation of capital investment and, at best, a great investment. A few years ago I came across a chamber dated 1914 DWM artillery with a matching mag for $3500. It was my birthday so I said to myself, "do it!". A week after that, a second one came up for $3400. It also had a matching mag and was also in good shape. I thought,"trade bait" and I took it. So being the big mouth that I am, I started bragging about my extravagance. Some guy heard me yaking and he said that he had one for $1500. I looked at it and saw that it was a nice Weimar reblue with repro grips and no mag but, otherwise, in good shape. Like the dummy that I am, I took it. Afterward, I couldn't help but ask myself where my head was on all these guns. It seemed like I got carried away. But now I am looking at the current blue book and see that a chamber dated 1914 DWM artillery is worth 200% the price of a comparable DWM from other years. My stupidity is beginning to look not so stupid. Big Norm

04-28-2003, 01:52 AM	#20
tnak User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: idaho Posts: 28 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hey, thanks for the response and for posting the pic's for me. I have shown the piece around locally with some knowledgable ? collectors and they all seem to have a different opinion. I have not yet taken the grips off yet, but I believe they are original. The snail drum and loading tool are ok in everyone's opinion. The holster and straps are ok but the metal lug on the stock is questionable. They all think the stock itself is ok though. It came with two matching mags and two leather pouches. I will inspect this gun with a fine tooth comb soon and if anyone is interested, can post specific pics if Edward will so oblige. Thanks again for all your help.