legality of repro. artillery stock

glenn s · 03-25-2003, 10:07 PM

I have a artillery luger that was built up from parts. The frame and lower parts are a ww2 mauser code 42, the upper receiver is not dated.The original artillery barrel,and other parts are a mixture. the frame is registered <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" /> as per our firearms laws. If I shoot this gun with the reproduction artillery stock attached, would this be legal?

Dwight Gruber · 03-25-2003, 10:29 PM

No. Not even to attach it.

--Dwight

Big Norm · 03-26-2003, 01:17 AM

Glen,
while I technically agree with Dwight, I think this is, in reality, a grey area. Many laws are determined by the arresting officers morning bath waters temperature. So be nice to that person. The officer would not only have to know the law, they would also have to know something about Lugers. From reading this forum for a while now, I have come to the conclusion that there are many people, including law officers, who don't know a concocted artillery Luger from a real one much less the vagarities of law. At a shooting range you would probably never get in trouble,unless you are causing some kind of problem. But, if hunting, depending on the laws in the state that you are hunting in, you might have a problem with conservation officers. Judges frequently give them considerable leyway unless you have an expensive lawyer at your side in court.
Big Norm

ViggoG · 03-26-2003, 01:36 AM

I have just Posted this Post Below in the Holster/Ideal Stock thread, And it seems to be of pertinent Interest Here Also !!

Sorry Folks,
I forgot to add;
These Quotes are taken from these "General Information", Links and URL's.

BATF Letter, on Luger Shoulder Stocks

http://www.lugerforum.com/BATF.html

and

NFA rules, exempted guns list

http://www.lugerforum.com/BATF2.html

I would Hope that each Interested Party, Click, Print, and Read and Read again !!!
ViggoG

glenn s · 03-26-2003, 07:02 AM

Thanks Guys

Lugerdoc · 03-26-2003, 11:10 AM

Glenn, I agree with Big Norm in that it depends how bad the Feds are after you for other things. Most state and local law enforcement officers are probably less knowlegable about these laws than you are. The only case where I've heard of these laws being enforced, were in a more serious infraction: "Tell us where you got the machine gun, and we'll forget about the incorrect stocked pistols". Tom H.

John Sabato · 03-26-2003, 11:58 AM

While all the expressed opinions contain information that has some merit ...I absolutely must concur with Dwight. Attaching a stock to this gun would NOT be legal under any circumstances.

The "basis" for the gun is the serial numbered and controlled Frame. It was NOT manufactured by either of the Luger producers of the Artillery Model. I wouldn't want to have to defend this situation in court...

The gun is NOT an artillery model... just a reproduction of an artillery model. This gun could not appear to fall in a category as listed in the C&R list that is exempted from the NFA.

In order for the gun to be technically legal with a shoulder stock, it would have to be made with both a frame and an upper receiver (barrel extension to some) that falls in the correct serial number sequence to have been an artillery, and that was produced by either DWM or Erfurt. It would then be considered a "rebuilt" or "restored" or "repaired" artillery model that no one could question it's origins.

IMHO, to recommend any other course of action might be reckless... and I would not want to be responsible for someone wearing handcuffs for following my advice. I have to err on the side of safety in these circumstances...

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Navy · 03-26-2003, 01:46 PM

All,
Inconsistent enforcement is in no way a plausible rationale for violating a Federal felony statute. In fact, it is exactly the opposite.

If you want a stocked artillery, buy one. It will cost about half what your first day's legal fees are if you are caught with an illegal weapon.

Tom A

Stu · 03-26-2003, 05:22 PM

Break the law, (which is pretty clear on this particular point), at your own peril.

glenn s · 03-26-2003, 05:48 PM

Thanks alot every body for the answers on the stock question, and thank you John Sabato for explaining the reasoning behind that.That stock will look as good on a non gun.I'ts good to see you on Tom H. If I need parts I will call, any long barrelled 9mm's for sale? mail me back.

03-25-2003, 10:07 PM	#1
glenn s User Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	legality of repro. artillery stock I have a artillery luger that was built up from parts. The frame and lower parts are a ww2 mauser code 42, the upper receiver is not dated.The original artillery barrel,and other parts are a mixture. the frame is registered <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" /> as per our firearms laws. If I shoot this gun with the reproduction artillery stock attached, would this be legal?

03-26-2003, 11:10 AM	#6
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Glenn, I agree with Big Norm in that it depends how bad the Feds are after you for other things. Most state and local law enforcement officers are probably less knowlegable about these laws than you are. The only case where I've heard of these laws being enforced, were in a more serious infraction: "Tell us where you got the machine gun, and we'll forget about the incorrect stocked pistols". Tom H. __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 [email protected]

03-26-2003, 11:58 AM	#7
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	While all the expressed opinions contain information that has some merit ...I absolutely must concur with Dwight. Attaching a stock to this gun would NOT be legal under any circumstances. The "basis" for the gun is the serial numbered and controlled Frame. It was NOT manufactured by either of the Luger producers of the Artillery Model. I wouldn't want to have to defend this situation in court... The gun is NOT an artillery model... just a reproduction of an artillery model. This gun could not appear to fall in a category as listed in the C&R list that is exempted from the NFA. In order for the gun to be technically legal with a shoulder stock, it would have to be made with both a frame and an upper receiver (barrel extension to some) that falls in the correct serial number sequence to have been an artillery, and that was produced by either DWM or Erfurt. It would then be considered a "rebuilt" or "restored" or "repaired" artillery model that no one could question it's origins. IMHO, to recommend any other course of action might be reckless... and I would not want to be responsible for someone wearing handcuffs for following my advice. I have to err on the side of safety in these circumstances... That's my story and I'm sticking to it. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

03-25-2003, 10:29 PM	#2
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,318 Times in 431 Posts	No. Not even to attach it. --Dwight

03-26-2003, 01:17 AM	#3
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Glen, while I technically agree with Dwight, I think this is, in reality, a grey area. Many laws are determined by the arresting officers morning bath waters temperature. So be nice to that person. The officer would not only have to know the law, they would also have to know something about Lugers. From reading this forum for a while now, I have come to the conclusion that there are many people, including law officers, who don't know a concocted artillery Luger from a real one much less the vagarities of law. At a shooting range you would probably never get in trouble,unless you are causing some kind of problem. But, if hunting, depending on the laws in the state that you are hunting in, you might have a problem with conservation officers. Judges frequently give them considerable leyway unless you have an expensive lawyer at your side in court. Big Norm

03-26-2003, 01:36 AM	#4
ViggoG RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: South Side Virginia Posts: 534 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I have just Posted this Post Below in the Holster/Ideal Stock thread, And it seems to be of pertinent Interest Here Also !! Sorry Folks, I forgot to add; These Quotes are taken from these "General Information", Links and URL's. BATF Letter, on Luger Shoulder Stocks http://www.lugerforum.com/BATF.html and NFA rules, exempted guns list http://www.lugerforum.com/BATF2.html I would Hope that each Interested Party, Click, Print, and Read and Read again !!! ViggoG

03-26-2003, 07:02 AM	#5
glenn s User Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks Guys

03-26-2003, 01:46 PM	#8
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	All, Inconsistent enforcement is in no way a plausible rationale for violating a Federal felony statute. In fact, it is exactly the opposite. If you want a stocked artillery, buy one. It will cost about half what your first day's legal fees are if you are caught with an illegal weapon. Tom A

03-26-2003, 05:22 PM	#9
Stu User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 452 Thanks: 4 Thanked 25 Times in 16 Posts	Break the law, (which is pretty clear on this particular point), at your own peril.

03-26-2003, 05:48 PM	#10
glenn s User Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks alot every body for the answers on the stock question, and thank you John Sabato for explaining the reasoning behind that.That stock will look as good on a non gun.I'ts good to see you on Tom H. If I need parts I will call, any long barrelled 9mm's for sale? mail me back.