Rarity or Condition?

[Lugerlvr]

Ok guys and gals, just a quick poll. Which is more important to you, rarity or condition?

in other words, would you rather have a rare gun in poor(honest)condition, or a common gun in pristine(honest) condition?

My vote is for the latter of the two, allthough I would really like to have a rare gun in pristine condition....Duh! [img]confused.gif[/img] <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />

[Roadkill]

Rarity will win over commonality most always. Ex is the .45 Luger (my head is bowed with the proper reverence as I use the term). <img src="graemlins/icon107.gif" border="0" alt="[icon107]" /> Any condition of it would out value any other pristine common variation. A "friend" (who will remain unnamed) was once stationed at a far away location where companionship of the opposite sex was very limited,. Rarity won out over condition every time.

RK

[TC]

that all depends on how you define "value". if it is based on monetary issues then i guess "rariety" does drive it. if it's based on the sheer love of the luger and the appreaciation of craftmanship or just the history of it then the "value" is defined differently. i guess the bottom line is "value" is up to the individual collector. if it's all about the money and the investment and the return - then yes i guess rariety drives that purchase. if you just love collecting things as i do, it's not that important. it's nice, but not the end all. i factor in the history, the finish, and then the rariety.

well, ok - the very first step is cost. which i think beat finish and rareity everytime because if you ain't got the money you can just throw the other 2 right out the window.

personally i think too much is made of "all matching and original finish" myself and cause a lot of nice old lugers feeling neglected. a luger is a luger. the main reason the other 2 are issues are based mainly on money issues and are driven by greedy collectors and shady dealers. follow the money and you always find the answers.

just my cheap two cents worth.

[img]eek.gif[/img] <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" /> <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" /> <img src="graemlins/oops.gif" border="0" alt="[oops]" />

[Jack Owens]

I'm not sure what the specific contrast is. To take a probably overly simplified example, if the value lies in just a matter of a serial number or some sort of sequence and the actual model is the same, I'd go for condition. I mean if I had the rare serial number in poor condition, I'd sell, buy another of the same model --less rare but in excellent condition and presumably cheaper-- and have money left over.

Visual aesthetics would be more important to me than rarity.

[Edward Tinker]

Actually kind of a hard one... My gut feeling is that to have the history of any one piece, I would want the one with honest wear. But, and collectors books always disagree, I would take a rare piece in bad condition. As an example, one of the American Test Lugerâ??s (7.65 / 9mm) that is rough shape, could very well have been one of those that was down in the Philippians and to me that would be ok. But a rare piece in bad shape won't go up in value as fast as a rare piece in good shape.

So the questions remains, even monetarily, is it smarter to buy a rare piece in bad shape or a honest piece in good shape.

Which has historically gone up in price percentage wise?

A 1906 American in 60% shape
or a Mauser 1940 in 90% shape?

[Imperial Arms]

In my opinion, the 3C's (Condition, Condition, Condition) is the most important factor when deciding to buy a Luger. A Luger with condition will always bring a premium.

Albert
Imperial Arms

[TC]

there you go....that's the problem with "collecting" lugers. i think we need to redefine what "collecting" and "collectors" are. if your "collecting" is merely based on "bringing a premium" on an investment then perhaps you are really just a "broker" or an "investment collector" or simply put a "dealer". i hate to give the term "dealer" a bad name, but when there's a dollar to be made someone is going to lose. and most of the time it's the buyer. it's a necesary evil we have to contend with in a hobby we all love. i've seen a ton of mismatched reblued lugers on line lately and they are the best chance we have of getting inflatted prices down and "honesty" back into the hobby. when dealers see that people won't pay the high prices for "all matching" and collector lugers then the funny stuff might stop and realistic prices might resurface. but it does seem to be a sellers market and until buyers wise up more "funny stuff" will show up. now i gotta go shine up my all matching, 98% blue / 90% straw 1917 DWM. <img src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" border="0" alt="[soapbox]" /> <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" /> <img src="graemlins/icon107.gif" border="0" alt="[icon107]" /> <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" /> <img src="graemlins/offtopic.gif" border="0" alt="[offtopic]" />

[Jimbo]

Condition is far more valuable to me than rarity.

Rarity establishes value. But I am not into value or seeing my Luger investments appreciate financially. I like top condition Lugers that represent what the German soldier was issued at the time. JMHO.

Thanks,

Jimbo

[Lugerlvr]

Yes!!!!!!!
There is NOTHING like seeing a 99% 1920 DWM Commercial. Common yes, but really breathtaking!

this is from a guy whose favorite Luger is my 1939 Chamber Dated "42" code in, if lucky, 70% condition. I just want and demand to get exactly what I pay for. Very simple for most to understand, and Nuclear Roket Science to a vast minority(allthough growing daily) of "dealers" and "collectors". Good example, cable sales channels, and infomercials. Gee, do you think that would work with Lugers? No flames intended nor implied. <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" /> <img src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" border="0" alt="[soapbox]" />

[Thor]

There are quite a few factors to consider. I like condition as long as it is well done or original. A Navy Luger that is 100% that is an overbuff reblue (I fixed one like that) and was a High polish SALT blue is not as nice to me as a 70% real Navy, but a 90% REal Navy is even better.
If you look at Ralph's Georg Luger Baby it is in not in mint condition, but it would be my "pick of the room" for Rarity sake and history! Rarity must be tempered with absolute certainty what you are looking at is for real. A gunshow SS Luger might be rare, but it might just be a "gunshop original" too! Over all originality mixed with very good condition is tops for ol Thor!

[Karl]

There is another factor besides rarity and condition that should be addressed: history. I would find a common military Luger in less than perfect condition but with regimental markings and documentation as a war trophy much more valuable than a rare commercial model in pristine condition. The more layers of history the better. I find reworks interesting for this reason, although they have low collector value. KFS

[Marvin]

Karl,

I found your posting very interesting and I agree with you completly. Yes, I like the mint condition, but the ones I collect are usually in the 95% range because they show some use.

The history of these great pistols are my prime consideration. I have at least one example of most of the Third Reich Lugers and then got interested in the Weimar Era Lugers that were utilized into the Third Reich period. These pistols have a long history and many of these began life in or before WWI, then served the Weimar Era, and finally the Third Reich.

Yes, they have been manufactured, reworked an unknown number of times, but still served their country. A rich history like this is what makes them interesting. As many have stated; "if they could only talk".

Marvin

[M38]

I would like one of each, please.

[wterrell]

[quote] A "friend" (who will remain unnamed) was once stationed at a far away location where companionship of the opposite sex was very limited,. Rarity won out over condition every time. <hr></blockquote>
Roadkill, you slay me. hahahahahahaha!!!!

Now to the subject: rarity must win out. Rarity is what makes any item collectible. You can't collect what is common; what is the use of that? You can only collect what is limited. The more rare; the more limited; the more precious. (if an item is not limited, it's called "hoarding")


(Would I rather have Paul von Hinderburg's Luger or Max the baker's Luger?)

[TC]

i guess "rariety" becomes an issue when you got money. sure hindenburg's luger would be great...but if i can get max the bakers "all matching, 99% blue, 99% straw mint luger rig with those unit marks" all at less than a tenth of von hindenburgs luger cost - guess where 90% of your luger collectors are going to put down the money? especially if max was hindenburgs personel chef and gay lover on the side. now that's some history!

but yeah, if i'm a zillionaire and can afford only the best life has to offer, then i guess paying top dollar for rare gems is the only way to go. but hey, for us poor old, blue collar luger collectors an honest, war ravaged lugger in great shape for under $700 looks swell to me. perhpas we should have a "white collar" and a "blue collar" forum? or perhaps some good ol' liberal wealth redistibution might help us all learn what real luger collecting is all about.

<img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />

[wterrell]

TC,
It would appear that you have a 'beef' if a person does not attain to your pocket book. So, what if a person has more money to throw at his affection?! Does that mean that he should be ashamed of that affluence?
It seems to me that there are collectors of all persuasions of wealth and poverty who share equal stature in this fellowship of Luger collecting. I do not know of any who look down upon another because he cannot afford more than his budget. There is no condescension among any of these students of Luger.
So there should be no bitterness toward any who have been blessed with an advantageous position and can afford the more 'rare' items. We should be happy for them.

As an example, we could buy our business suits at Giorgenti or acquire them from Walmart. A suit is a suit. Right? Its what a man can afford.

BMW or Yugo? Four tires and a steering wheel. Right? Its what a man can afford.

Envy is a bitter fruit.