1900 swiss

ejc · 11-01-2002, 05:10 PM

I was wondering if what I read in Kenyons Lugers at Random about serials on comm. and military guns is corrrect. I couldn't find anything in Stills book imperial lugers to back it up so I was wondering if that was outdated information or what.I was also wondering what else if anything I would need to look for. Next week Im going to look at one they say its a 1900 contract model with dished toggles in 9mm #680. From what I have read so far I dont think 9mm is correct. any help on this would be great.

Orv Reichert · 11-01-2002, 10:19 PM

I have a list of 1900 Swiss.. from SN 01 thru 4986 and the only variation seems to be some very subtle variations [in the trigger width or safety type] and none recorded in 9mm..

There is one recorded with a longer barrel.

What can you tell us about the provenance of the piece or about the seller?

ORV REICHERT
P O BOX 67
VADER, WA 98593-0067
360 245 3492 (TEL)
360 245 3702 (FAX)
[email protected]

[img]confused.gif[/img]

Lugerdoc · 11-02-2002, 10:16 AM

Orv, The Swiss were not shy about changing barrels as needed, but usually stayed with the thin tapered 7.65x120mm barrels on the long frame models. I'd check the serial numbers on the barrel very closely, but even then, the original may have been bored out to 9mm and may be difficult to tell. Tom H.

ejc · 11-02-2002, 04:04 PM

I cant tell you much about seller or the guns history.Im going to look at it saterday the 9 my sister actually found out about it for me since Ive started collecting(about less than a year)I have got everyone looking for me. In the description all it has written down is 1900 swiss contract model 4 3/4 barrell with dished toggles and locked recessed breech block and 680 and 80 on some parts.I read in kenyons book that milatary serials went from2001 -5000 I was wondering if this was right

ejc · 11-02-2002, 04:19 PM

Orv,
there was a pic with the description couldnt get it on here so I just emailed it to you

Dwight Gruber · 11-02-2002, 05:02 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Lugerdoc:
<strong>Orv, The Swiss were not shy about changing barrels as needed, but usually stayed with the thin tapered 7.65x120mm barrels on the long frame models. I'd check the serial numbers on the barrel very closely, but even then, the original may have been bored out to 9mm and may be difficult to tell. Tom H.</strong><hr></blockquote>

You can actually bore one of the slimline .30 barrels out to 9mm???

--Dwight

Pete Ebbink · 11-02-2002, 07:00 PM

Hello Ed,

1. There are two (2) decent books that cover the Swiss lugers; those made both by DWM as well as the Swiss arsenal in Bern.

The first book is an older book by Fred A. Datig, titled "Monograph IV - The Swiss Variations 1897 - 1947. Printed in 1955-58 and reprinted in 1992. You can still find these on E-bay once in a while and at gun book stores or web sellers for around $ 20-30.00. This book is 88 pages with good text and black & white photos.

The second book is a newer one by Vittorio M. Bobba, titled "Parabellum - A Technical History of Swiss Lugers. Printed in 1996 and still available brand new for $ 100-125.00 from gun book stores and some of the bigger luger dealers. This book is an oversized volume, has 224 pages, and the best color photos of both DWM and Bern lugers you will ever see. Most are museum-quality lugers. This book also has a side-by-side, detail photographic comparison of the various swiss lugers and their unique traits and a detailed listing of serial numbers for each model and manufacturer.

2. Mr. Bobba, on page 206 of his book, lists the serial number of all 1900 DWM Swiss contract lugers falling in the 01 to 5000 range. This is consistent with the list that Orv Reichert mentioned in his preivous thread.

Mr. Bobba also mentions some model 1900 Swiss lugers in the 5001A-5100A range that were originally stamped with an Exxx serial number that was removed and renumbered in the 5001A to 5100A range.

3. In both books, I cannot find any reference to 1900 DWM Swiss contract lugers numbered in the military style.

4. Typically a 1900 Swiss 4-3/4" barrel would have a small Swiss federal cross stamped on the left side of the barrel, near the receiver end of the barrel.

Regards,

Pete... <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

ejc · 11-02-2002, 11:55 PM

I tried to order the Bobba book. Amazon said they were republishing at a much lower price but sent me an email later and said that it wasnt being republished and I have not been able to warm up to that $100 price tag but I will try to find that Datig book thanks. I have been collecting for a short time and bought one gun but I have already invested more money in books than I have the gun.

Pete Ebbink · 11-03-2002, 01:14 AM

Hello again, Ed,

That $ 100.00 price for the Bobba book is the best luger book investment I have made to date.

I think it a very sound investment in knowledge if you have any Swiss desires at all.

It's a lovely big book, written side-by-side in Italian and English and the photos are well taken and detailed.

You will spend hours reading and enjoying the book over and over...

Here is a web site I have purchased books from in the past. They are very quick to ship and all books are new unless otherwise stated. Larry Riling is a very nice guy to deal with as well :

http://rayrilingarmsbooks.com/cgi-bi...ml?id=XTzF24ua

Enter the name "Bobba" in the search window and it will lead you to the book and order function.

Regards,

Pete... <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

Lugerdoc · 11-03-2002, 08:41 AM

I still have a good supply of new Datig Swiss luger books available @$20 post paid. Tom H.

ejc · 11-03-2002, 10:31 AM

well with high praise like that I think I will pick up Bobba book. Tom H I am interested in the other book what would be the best way to get in toch with you

Ron Wood · 11-03-2002, 09:30 PM

Serial number 608 is a very early Luger, probably still in the Type I thumb safety lever range and produced in early 1901. Since the 9mm was not introduced until 1902 in the 22,000 serial number range, it is unlikely that the calber of #608 is original.

Orv, can you post the picture that was e-mailed to you or can you send it to me?

11-01-2002, 05:10 PM	#1
ejc User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 83 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	1900 swiss I was wondering if what I read in Kenyons Lugers at Random about serials on comm. and military guns is corrrect. I couldn't find anything in Stills book imperial lugers to back it up so I was wondering if that was outdated information or what.I was also wondering what else if anything I would need to look for. Next week Im going to look at one they say its a 1900 contract model with dished toggles in 9mm #680. From what I have read so far I dont think 9mm is correct. any help on this would be great.

11-01-2002, 10:19 PM	#2
Orv Reichert RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SW Washington State Posts: 339 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I have a list of 1900 Swiss.. from SN 01 thru 4986 and the only variation seems to be some very subtle variations [in the trigger width or safety type] and none recorded in 9mm.. There is one recorded with a longer barrel. What can you tell us about the provenance of the piece or about the seller? ORV REICHERT P O BOX 67 VADER, WA 98593-0067 360 245 3492 (TEL) 360 245 3702 (FAX) [email protected] [img]confused.gif[/img] __________________ ORVEL L. "ORV" REICHERT

11-02-2002, 10:16 AM	#3
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Orv, The Swiss were not shy about changing barrels as needed, but usually stayed with the thin tapered 7.65x120mm barrels on the long frame models. I'd check the serial numbers on the barrel very closely, but even then, the original may have been bored out to 9mm and may be difficult to tell. Tom H. __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 [email protected]

11-03-2002, 08:41 AM	#10
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	I still have a good supply of new Datig Swiss luger books available @$20 post paid. Tom H. __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 [email protected]

11-03-2002, 09:30 PM	#12
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,179 Times in 1,703 Posts	Serial number 608 is a very early Luger, probably still in the Type I thumb safety lever range and produced in early 1901. Since the 9mm was not introduced until 1902 in the 22,000 serial number range, it is unlikely that the calber of #608 is original. Orv, can you post the picture that was e-mailed to you or can you send it to me? __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

11-02-2002, 04:04 PM	#4
ejc User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 83 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I cant tell you much about seller or the guns history.Im going to look at it saterday the 9 my sister actually found out about it for me since Ive started collecting(about less than a year)I have got everyone looking for me. In the description all it has written down is 1900 swiss contract model 4 3/4 barrell with dished toggles and locked recessed breech block and 680 and 80 on some parts.I read in kenyons book that milatary serials went from2001 -5000 I was wondering if this was right

11-02-2002, 04:19 PM	#5
ejc User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 83 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Orv, there was a pic with the description couldnt get it on here so I just emailed it to you

11-02-2002, 05:02 PM	#6
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,318 Times in 431 Posts	[quote]Originally posted by Lugerdoc: <strong>Orv, The Swiss were not shy about changing barrels as needed, but usually stayed with the thin tapered 7.65x120mm barrels on the long frame models. I'd check the serial numbers on the barrel very closely, but even then, the original may have been bored out to 9mm and may be difficult to tell. Tom H.</strong><hr></blockquote> You can actually bore one of the slimline .30 barrels out to 9mm??? --Dwight

11-02-2002, 07:00 PM	#7
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hello Ed, 1. There are two (2) decent books that cover the Swiss lugers; those made both by DWM as well as the Swiss arsenal in Bern. The first book is an older book by Fred A. Datig, titled "Monograph IV - The Swiss Variations 1897 - 1947. Printed in 1955-58 and reprinted in 1992. You can still find these on E-bay once in a while and at gun book stores or web sellers for around $ 20-30.00. This book is 88 pages with good text and black & white photos. The second book is a newer one by Vittorio M. Bobba, titled "Parabellum - A Technical History of Swiss Lugers. Printed in 1996 and still available brand new for $ 100-125.00 from gun book stores and some of the bigger luger dealers. This book is an oversized volume, has 224 pages, and the best color photos of both DWM and Bern lugers you will ever see. Most are museum-quality lugers. This book also has a side-by-side, detail photographic comparison of the various swiss lugers and their unique traits and a detailed listing of serial numbers for each model and manufacturer. 2. Mr. Bobba, on page 206 of his book, lists the serial number of all 1900 DWM Swiss contract lugers falling in the 01 to 5000 range. This is consistent with the list that Orv Reichert mentioned in his preivous thread. Mr. Bobba also mentions some model 1900 Swiss lugers in the 5001A-5100A range that were originally stamped with an Exxx serial number that was removed and renumbered in the 5001A to 5100A range. 3. In both books, I cannot find any reference to 1900 DWM Swiss contract lugers numbered in the military style. 4. Typically a 1900 Swiss 4-3/4" barrel would have a small Swiss federal cross stamped on the left side of the barrel, near the receiver end of the barrel. Regards, Pete... <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

11-02-2002, 11:55 PM	#8
ejc User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 83 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I tried to order the Bobba book. Amazon said they were republishing at a much lower price but sent me an email later and said that it wasnt being republished and I have not been able to warm up to that $100 price tag but I will try to find that Datig book thanks. I have been collecting for a short time and bought one gun but I have already invested more money in books than I have the gun.

11-03-2002, 01:14 AM	#9
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hello again, Ed, That $ 100.00 price for the Bobba book is the best luger book investment I have made to date. I think it a very sound investment in knowledge if you have any Swiss desires at all. It's a lovely big book, written side-by-side in Italian and English and the photos are well taken and detailed. You will spend hours reading and enjoying the book over and over... Here is a web site I have purchased books from in the past. They are very quick to ship and all books are new unless otherwise stated. Larry Riling is a very nice guy to deal with as well : http://rayrilingarmsbooks.com/cgi-bi...ml?id=XTzF24ua Enter the name "Bobba" in the search window and it will lead you to the book and order function. Regards, Pete... <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

11-03-2002, 10:31 AM	#11
ejc User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 83 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	well with high praise like that I think I will pick up Bobba book. Tom H I am interested in the other book what would be the best way to get in toch with you