Help with a new Swiss Luger.

Lugers down under · 04-30-2003, 06:57 AM

I would appreciate any help anyone can give me with a new Luger acquisition.
The gun which is pictured above I describe as follow.
Frame; 1906/29 narrow trigger and guard with stock lug. Special note.
The frame (and slide) are the same length as the old model 5&3/16Ã¢?Â rather than
5&2/32Ã¢?Â of the new model. The extra 3/32Ã¢?Â occurs a the result of the chamber and thus barrel thread being longer than usual. The gun has a crown over U lazy proof on the left side together with an eagle proof the like I have never seen before nor can I find in any of my books.

Serial number is 2411 b with the take down lever, trigger and safety bar having the last two digits 11. It has a shortened sear. Brown walnut fine chequered grips with no numbers or letters what so ever on the grips. There is a small P stamp behind the trigger pin hole.
On the inside floor behind the take down lever are the letters T N with an E in a circle and then T and a S.
The barrel is 9mm and is exactly 120 mm long, (4 & Ã?Â¾Ã¢?Â) and is stamped with the matching serial number and the Swiss cross proof and the Berness proof. It has the typical low profile front site.
The toggle is highly polished blue with the DWM logo, knurled toggels and has the Swiss type 1906 half round rear sight. There are no numbers on the toggle, toggle pin, firing pin or firing pin retainer.
\The magazine is bright nickel plated with a brown wooden base and has matching number 2411, The is a small stylised P on the bottom of the magazine back.
The magazine is identical to the one shown on page 191 of Vittorio BobbaÃ¢??s book Parabellum as Model 1906/29 Ã¢??Brown gripsÃ¢?Â
The gun is very similar to the one shown on page 115 of VittorioÃ¢??s book except that mine has a longer barrel.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Regards
Murray

Lugerdoc · 04-30-2003, 10:27 AM

Murry, Another interesting pistol. The proofing on the left frame rail is E.German, but this is the only long framed one of these that I've heard of. I suspect that the 9x120mm Swiss marked barrel and matching BP marked mag are recent additions. I'd sure like to find a few 9mm long receiver type barrels for my customers who need them. Tom H.

John Sabato · 04-30-2003, 10:52 AM

Murray,

an absolutely beautiful looking Swiss! Congrats! It would be interesting to know it's history since Tom Heller said that the left frame proofs are East German in origin...

swissdagger · 04-30-2003, 11:25 AM

The barrel and perhaps the magazine is swiss but not the rest.
Maybe a commercial or rework model .
I miss the grip safety.
Thanks
Stefan

Ron Wood · 04-30-2003, 02:45 PM

Murray,

You certainly have acquired a puzzle! A long frame with stock lug, 9mm Swiss, and a serial number with a letter suffix...Wow! A few more questions please: Is the barrel serial numbered, with or without the suffix? Does the chamber have the Swiss cross in sunburst? You stated that the take down lever is numbered but it isn't apparent in the photo...is it numbered on the round on the right side? Is there any indication that it once had a grip safety? Could you possibly post a picture of the top side?

Lugers down under · 04-30-2003, 10:24 PM

Thanks for the interest guys.
To answer your questions Ron,
The Take down lever is numbered on the underside of thr lever on the left side. The Barrel has the same suffex b. The area over the chamber is unmarked ie: no cross in sunburst or date or anything. I am no expert as I have only been collecting Lugers for about 30 years but this gun looks like it is the original finish all over,The blueing is identical to my 1900 Lugers of which I have a number. It has that same "luster" if that is the correct word.
What puzzles me is the long frame.
I am an engineer and have seen a lot of fitting and turning and toolmaking. If the stock lug has been fitted later its the best job I have ever seen.It is no different to any of my other Lugers with stock lug.Here is a gun with a long frame yet is very clearly a new style frame made for the coil spring and not the leaf spring. There is no sign of there ever have been a grip safety.
An interesting note. In Vittorio Bobbas book he mentioned that in 1912 DWM made a number of 9mm 120mm long barrel guns from PO8 parts and that they had a stock lug. Could it be?
The person I got the gun from had had it for many years.
I will post some more photos tonight. Also some of my new side frame marked Krieghoff.
Kind wishes to you all
Murray.

John D. · 05-01-2003, 01:36 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Lugers down under:
........(snipperrrrooo of other stuff).... Also some of my new side frame marked Krieghoff.<hr /></blockquote><img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" />
<img border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" title="" src="graemlins/drink.gif" />
<img border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" title="" src="graemlins/bigok.gif" />
<img border="0" alt="[king]" title="" src="graemlins/r.gif" />
<img border="0" alt="[bigbye]" title="" src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" />
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

Well - you get the idea.....

Ron Wood · 05-01-2003, 02:31 AM

OK John D., stop drooling over the HK...we have a mystery to solve here. If we go wandering down another path without at least having a go at deciphering this Swiss I will have to take the jacket with the arms that buckle in the back out of the closet again. <img border="0" alt="[ouch]" title="" src="graemlins/c.gif" />

04-30-2003, 06:57 AM	#1
Lugers down under User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Great Barrier Island, New Zealand Posts: 228 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Help with a new Swiss Luger. I would appreciate any help anyone can give me with a new Luger acquisition. The gun which is pictured above I describe as follow. Frame; 1906/29 narrow trigger and guard with stock lug. Special note. The frame (and slide) are the same length as the old model 5&3/16Ã¢?Â rather than 5&2/32Ã¢?Â of the new model. The extra 3/32Ã¢?Â occurs a the result of the chamber and thus barrel thread being longer than usual. The gun has a crown over U lazy proof on the left side together with an eagle proof the like I have never seen before nor can I find in any of my books. Serial number is 2411 b with the take down lever, trigger and safety bar having the last two digits 11. It has a shortened sear. Brown walnut fine chequered grips with no numbers or letters what so ever on the grips. There is a small P stamp behind the trigger pin hole. On the inside floor behind the take down lever are the letters T N with an E in a circle and then T and a S. The barrel is 9mm and is exactly 120 mm long, (4 & Ã?Â¾Ã¢?Â) and is stamped with the matching serial number and the Swiss cross proof and the Berness proof. It has the typical low profile front site. The toggle is highly polished blue with the DWM logo, knurled toggels and has the Swiss type 1906 half round rear sight. There are no numbers on the toggle, toggle pin, firing pin or firing pin retainer. \The magazine is bright nickel plated with a brown wooden base and has matching number 2411, The is a small stylised P on the bottom of the magazine back. The magazine is identical to the one shown on page 191 of Vittorio BobbaÃ¢??s book Parabellum as Model 1906/29 Ã¢??Brown gripsÃ¢?Â The gun is very similar to the one shown on page 115 of VittorioÃ¢??s book except that mine has a longer barrel. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Regards Murray __________________ Lugers down under

04-30-2003, 10:27 AM	#2
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Murry, Another interesting pistol. The proofing on the left frame rail is E.German, but this is the only long framed one of these that I've heard of. I suspect that the 9x120mm Swiss marked barrel and matching BP marked mag are recent additions. I'd sure like to find a few 9mm long receiver type barrels for my customers who need them. Tom H. __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 [email protected]

04-30-2003, 10:52 AM	#3
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Murray, an absolutely beautiful looking Swiss! Congrats! It would be interesting to know it's history since Tom Heller said that the left frame proofs are East German in origin... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

04-30-2003, 02:45 PM	#5
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,179 Times in 1,703 Posts	Murray, You certainly have acquired a puzzle! A long frame with stock lug, 9mm Swiss, and a serial number with a letter suffix...Wow! A few more questions please: Is the barrel serial numbered, with or without the suffix? Does the chamber have the Swiss cross in sunburst? You stated that the take down lever is numbered but it isn't apparent in the photo...is it numbered on the round on the right side? Is there any indication that it once had a grip safety? Could you possibly post a picture of the top side? __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

04-30-2003, 10:24 PM	#6
Lugers down under User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Great Barrier Island, New Zealand Posts: 228 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Thanks for the interest guys. To answer your questions Ron, The Take down lever is numbered on the underside of thr lever on the left side. The Barrel has the same suffex b. The area over the chamber is unmarked ie: no cross in sunburst or date or anything. I am no expert as I have only been collecting Lugers for about 30 years but this gun looks like it is the original finish all over,The blueing is identical to my 1900 Lugers of which I have a number. It has that same "luster" if that is the correct word. What puzzles me is the long frame. I am an engineer and have seen a lot of fitting and turning and toolmaking. If the stock lug has been fitted later its the best job I have ever seen.It is no different to any of my other Lugers with stock lug.Here is a gun with a long frame yet is very clearly a new style frame made for the coil spring and not the leaf spring. There is no sign of there ever have been a grip safety. An interesting note. In Vittorio Bobbas book he mentioned that in 1912 DWM made a number of 9mm 120mm long barrel guns from PO8 parts and that they had a stock lug. Could it be? The person I got the gun from had had it for many years. I will post some more photos tonight. Also some of my new side frame marked Krieghoff. Kind wishes to you all Murray. __________________ Lugers down under

04-30-2003, 11:25 AM	#4
swissdagger User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Switzerland Posts: 53 Thanks: 1 Thanked 8 Times in 4 Posts	The barrel and perhaps the magazine is swiss but not the rest. Maybe a commercial or rework model . I miss the grip safety. Thanks Stefan

05-01-2003, 01:36 AM	#7
John D. Administrator & Site Owner LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Little NE of Somewhere... Posts: 2,651 Thanks: 477 Thanked 515 Times in 128 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Lugers down under: <strong>........(snipperrrrooo of other stuff).... Also some of my new side frame marked Krieghoff.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva"><img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" title="" src="graemlins/drink.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" title="" src="graemlins/bigok.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[king]" title="" src="graemlins/r.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[bigbye]" title="" src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> Well - you get the idea.....

05-01-2003, 02:31 AM	#8
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,179 Times in 1,703 Posts	OK John D., stop drooling over the HK...we have a mystery to solve here. If we go wandering down another path without at least having a go at deciphering this Swiss I will have to take the jacket with the arms that buckle in the back out of the closet again. <img border="0" alt="[ouch]" title="" src="graemlins/c.gif" /> __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction