Apparently Swiss Training Luger in .22

Bob in OH · 03-28-2003, 11:33 PM

Greetings-- I posted this on the miliary page but thought I'd place it again on the Swiss page after learning a bit more about this piece. Located a .22 Luger trainer that apparently was for a Swiss contract. The following was written by another gent from another Board...

"Manufactured by, Auguste Francotte et Cie , Manufacturie d'Armes Liege, circa 1910. Approximately 150 were made for Glaser Waffen AG, Zurich when the Swiss Ordonnanzpistolen (Luger) 1900 and 1906 were starting to be general issue. I have seen this pistol in the 1911 ALFA catalog and I think there was an example in Ernie Lang's collection and am almost sure I saw it on one of my visits to view his collection."

I guess the real question I have tonight is a range in potential value. Blue looks to be 97% and grips are fantastic with SN 14... Apparently a rare bird and in collectable condition. ANY and all comments are welcome and TIA...Bob

Lugerdoc · 03-29-2003, 09:05 AM

OH.Bob, Thanks for the nice photos. Those are Belgian proofs are over this "Luger". Tom H.

John Sabato · 04-01-2003, 01:09 PM

Hold onto your hat Bob!...

Here is the data from the 2001 Hermann-Historica auction number 40 that included one of these pistols.

Luger-Parabellum Trainingspistole Francotte
Kal. .22 l.r., Nr."32", nummerngleich. EinschÃ?Â¼ssig. KniegelenkverschluÃ??. Links am Lauf div. BeschuÃ??zeichen wie Krone/R, Krone/B und "FL 22 l." Nahezu vollstÃ?Â¤ndige und neuwertige BrÃ?Â¼nierung. Dunkelbraune, unbeschÃ?Â¤digte NuÃ??holzgriffschalen mit feiner Fischhaut. Sehr guter Gesamtzustand.
Absolute RaritÃ?Â¤t. Wohl nur in einer StÃ?Â¼ckzahl von ca. 200 von der Fa. Auguste Francotte, Belgien, und vermutlich im Auftrag der Schweizer Waffenhandelsfirmen Glaser und/oder auch Casimir Weber, ZÃ?Â¼rich, hergestellt. Letztere preist die "Trainingspistole System Weber" in einem Katalog aus dem Jahr 1912 als adÃ?Â¤quate Ã??bungswaffe zur Schweizer Ordonnanz-Parabellum an. Vergl. u.a. Datig, The Luger Pistol, Band 4, The Swiss Variations 1897-1947, S.74 ff. 06148

Luger Parabellum Training Pistol Francotte
Caliber .22 long rifle, number "32", matching numbers. Single-shot. Typical breechblock. On the left side of the barrel various inspection marks like Crown/R, Crown/B, and "FL 22 1". Nearly complete, mint finish. Dark brown, unblemished walnut checkered grips. Very good overall condition. An absolute rarity. Probably only about 200 produced by Messrs. Auguste Francotte, Belgium and handled by the firm Glaser and/or Casimir Weber, Zurich. Last
promoted as the "Training System Weber" in a 1912 catalogue as a satisfactory training weapon for Swiss ordnance-parabellum.

I-II EUR 6.136 DM 12.000

The price was OVER 6,136 Euro's or 12,000 Deutschmarks... I will let you do the conversion to dollars math yourself after you quit hyperventilating

Here is the URL to the web page from that auction:

http://www.hermann-historica.com/his...on/lot/105.htm

I would handle it very carefully and don't shoot it anymore!

Congrats!

Bob in OH · 04-01-2003, 09:09 PM

Holy HOLY MACKERAL....I thought this one might be a sleeper but WOW!! Thanks John!!! for tracking this down.

The Euro/$US converstion is close enough to 1:1 that I can do the math. Yikers!!! Now comes the challenge to find the serious investor who would like to add SN14 to their collection. The piece that sold was not in great shape either!! I believe I'll have a glass of wine and call it a great week. Cheers...B.

03-28-2003, 11:33 PM	#1
Bob in OH User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: NE OH Posts: 129 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Apparently Swiss Training Luger in .22 Greetings-- I posted this on the miliary page but thought I'd place it again on the Swiss page after learning a bit more about this piece. Located a .22 Luger trainer that apparently was for a Swiss contract. The following was written by another gent from another Board... "Manufactured by, Auguste Francotte et Cie , Manufacturie d'Armes Liege, circa 1910. Approximately 150 were made for Glaser Waffen AG, Zurich when the Swiss Ordonnanzpistolen (Luger) 1900 and 1906 were starting to be general issue. I have seen this pistol in the 1911 ALFA catalog and I think there was an example in Ernie Lang's collection and am almost sure I saw it on one of my visits to view his collection." I guess the real question I have tonight is a range in potential value. Blue looks to be 97% and grips are fantastic with SN 14... Apparently a rare bird and in collectable condition. ANY and all comments are welcome and TIA...Bob

03-29-2003, 09:05 AM	#2
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	OH.Bob, Thanks for the nice photos. Those are Belgian proofs are over this "Luger". Tom H. __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 [email protected]

04-01-2003, 01:09 PM	#3
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Hold onto your hat Bob!... Here is the data from the 2001 Hermann-Historica auction number 40 that included one of these pistols. Luger-Parabellum Trainingspistole Francotte Kal. .22 l.r., Nr."32", nummerngleich. EinschÃ?Â¼ssig. KniegelenkverschluÃ??. Links am Lauf div. BeschuÃ??zeichen wie Krone/R, Krone/B und "FL 22 l." Nahezu vollstÃ?Â¤ndige und neuwertige BrÃ?Â¼nierung. Dunkelbraune, unbeschÃ?Â¤digte NuÃ??holzgriffschalen mit feiner Fischhaut. Sehr guter Gesamtzustand. Absolute RaritÃ?Â¤t. Wohl nur in einer StÃ?Â¼ckzahl von ca. 200 von der Fa. Auguste Francotte, Belgien, und vermutlich im Auftrag der Schweizer Waffenhandelsfirmen Glaser und/oder auch Casimir Weber, ZÃ?Â¼rich, hergestellt. Letztere preist die "Trainingspistole System Weber" in einem Katalog aus dem Jahr 1912 als adÃ?Â¤quate Ã??bungswaffe zur Schweizer Ordonnanz-Parabellum an. Vergl. u.a. Datig, The Luger Pistol, Band 4, The Swiss Variations 1897-1947, S.74 ff. 06148 Luger Parabellum Training Pistol Francotte Caliber .22 long rifle, number "32", matching numbers. Single-shot. Typical breechblock. On the left side of the barrel various inspection marks like Crown/R, Crown/B, and "FL 22 1". Nearly complete, mint finish. Dark brown, unblemished walnut checkered grips. Very good overall condition. An absolute rarity. Probably only about 200 produced by Messrs. Auguste Francotte, Belgium and handled by the firm Glaser and/or Casimir Weber, Zurich. Last promoted as the "Training System Weber" in a 1912 catalogue as a satisfactory training weapon for Swiss ordnance-parabellum. I-II EUR 6.136 DM 12.000 The price was OVER 6,136 Euro's or 12,000 Deutschmarks... I will let you do the conversion to dollars math yourself after you quit hyperventilating Here is the URL to the web page from that auction: http://www.hermann-historica.com/his...on/lot/105.htm I would handle it very carefully and don't shoot it anymore! Congrats! __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

04-01-2003, 09:09 PM	#4
Bob in OH User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: NE OH Posts: 129 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Holy HOLY MACKERAL....I thought this one might be a sleeper but WOW!! Thanks John!!! for tracking this down. The Euro/$US converstion is close enough to 1:1 that I can do the math. Yikers!!! Now comes the challenge to find the serious investor who would like to add SN14 to their collection. The piece that sold was not in great shape either!! I believe I'll have a glass of wine and call it a great week. Cheers...B.