Philosophy Question...

Pete Ebbink · 08-01-2003, 02:58 AM

Would appreciate folks's comments and opinions :

Similar to the issue of refinishing/touching up lugers, how do folks feel about holster repair work...?

Is it better to leave a holster in it's "as found" condition or have a few repairs made to get it back to its "as-issued" shape ?

I have recently picked up a nice brown German military holster that is very, very nice, but is missing three stitches on each belt loop...along the top row...

Should I have the missing stitches replaced or leave the holster as is...with its inherent history...?

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

wterrell · 08-01-2003, 04:26 AM

Pete,
Perishable, peripheral accoutrements for a firearm should be preserved and repaired. Usually components of a perishable accoutrement should not be replaced (I am not speaking of thread). Replacement of component parts of a perishable becomes restoration, not repair.
An item worthy of repair would be complete, only needing repair, unless the item is so extremely rare that, even restored, it is of premium value because of its great rarity.

Edward Tinker · 08-01-2003, 08:11 AM

Yes, what the gentleman in the black cap said.

Well said Wes

Ed

John Sabato · 08-01-2003, 02:49 PM

sono D'accordo!

lugerholsterrepair · 08-01-2003, 05:34 PM

Jeeze Wes, I had to read what you said three times to understand it! You have been studying Latin way too much!

Since I restore/repair German Luger holsters everyday I thought I might weigh in on this one Pete.

I get holsters sent to me that would simply have to be thrown away if they were not stitched back together. What possible use would they be if in pieces or the top seperated from the body? What if the closure strap is broken in half? The back belt straps broken loose and flopping? A missing stock block on an Artillery holster? A closure stud missing on a Police Holster? I personally would prefer all of the pieces to be there on holsters I collect.

The Germans used Linen thread which is a plant fiber. On many holsters I see it is there but soft and rotten. Ready to rip out if any pressure is applied. Many collectors are not going to use their holsters for anything but display so it is often not necessary to fix small breaks in the thread such as Pete mentions because it will probably not deterioriate further if no stress is applied. One thing I have learned is not to hand a holster to a novice that is not aware of it's fragile condition. Invariably they will look it over like a purse inspector at a factory, opening and closing it, turning it over , prodding and prying,buckling and un-buckling the straps, opening and closing every pouch, in general trying to rip it apart. This is not healthy for 85 year old leather holsters. They must be treated with care if you expect them to stay together.

Now to answer Pete's question, Should you repair, restore? I am currently working on a clients Artillery and the loading tool pocket has had the metal closure stud torn out and the top is ripped and mashed. Otherwise the holster is in good shape and I have made him a new set of leathers to go with, stock boot and strap, closure strap etc. Everything to complete this great looking Artillery rig. Now, does one leave the loading tool pouch alone in it's original destroyed condition or replace it? My advice to him was to restore the holster to original specs. I would not want to open up my nice Artillery rig and see a loading tool pouch that looked like crap. A German Sadler would not leave it in that condition and it certainly is not ready for service.

This leaves us wondering, when should I repair or when should I leave it alone? I try to leave that up to the client. There are many types of collectors and some want their pieces to look their best, others want them to have some natural wear and tear. It really is a personal preference. Fortunately, I can make many repairs that cannot be detected by the casual observer even if they are looking for a repair. I am not bragging but if enough care is taken and the correct materials are used it blends into the original materials so that it is virtually impossible to detect.

One last thing, so much of a decision like this depends on who you can get to repair or restore a holster. I get many a holster in my shop that has been "repaired" at the local saddle shop or shoe repair. They have been stitched on a modern machine, with nylon thread, putting in holes that can never be taken out again , Yes, they are stitched back together but they are not restored in any way, they are essentially destroyed. You must weigh your decision to restore a holster on what is going to happen to it once you hand it off to someone. You must have trust and confidence that the job will be done right. If you do not have that confidence I would hope you leave it alone.These are precious historical artifacts that are really only in our care for a short time and are disapearing at a rapid rate. We must be wise in our decisions on how to take care of them for future generations of collectors as well as protecting the investment you have in them. Jerry Burney

Pete Ebbink · 08-02-2003, 01:53 AM

Thanks Wes and Jerry for your time in replying.

Here is the holster in question and the 1st. photo shows the "missing" thread stitching...

I still am debating whether to have this repaired or not...

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Navy · 08-02-2003, 02:31 AM

Pete,

That's a lovely holster. Send it to Jerry Burney for a little TLC and it will be even better.
Tom A.
Who got two pieces of Jerry's work today and is super pleased!

08-01-2003, 02:58 AM	#1
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Philosophy Question... Would appreciate folks's comments and opinions : Similar to the issue of refinishing/touching up lugers, how do folks feel about holster repair work...? Is it better to leave a holster in it's "as found" condition or have a few repairs made to get it back to its "as-issued" shape ? I have recently picked up a nice brown German military holster that is very, very nice, but is missing three stitches on each belt loop...along the top row... Should I have the missing stitches replaced or leave the holster as is...with its inherent history...? Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

08-01-2003, 04:26 AM	#2
wterrell User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,096 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Pete, Perishable, peripheral accoutrements for a firearm should be preserved and repaired. Usually components of a perishable accoutrement should not be replaced (I am not speaking of thread). Replacement of component parts of a perishable becomes restoration, not repair. An item worthy of repair would be complete, only needing repair, unless the item is so extremely rare that, even restored, it is of premium value because of its great rarity. __________________ Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo, wes --------------------

08-01-2003, 08:11 AM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	Yes, what the gentleman in the black cap said. Well said Wes Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

08-01-2003, 02:49 PM	#4
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	sono D'accordo! __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

08-01-2003, 05:34 PM	#5
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Jeeze Wes, I had to read what you said three times to understand it! You have been studying Latin way too much! Since I restore/repair German Luger holsters everyday I thought I might weigh in on this one Pete. I get holsters sent to me that would simply have to be thrown away if they were not stitched back together. What possible use would they be if in pieces or the top seperated from the body? What if the closure strap is broken in half? The back belt straps broken loose and flopping? A missing stock block on an Artillery holster? A closure stud missing on a Police Holster? I personally would prefer all of the pieces to be there on holsters I collect. The Germans used Linen thread which is a plant fiber. On many holsters I see it is there but soft and rotten. Ready to rip out if any pressure is applied. Many collectors are not going to use their holsters for anything but display so it is often not necessary to fix small breaks in the thread such as Pete mentions because it will probably not deterioriate further if no stress is applied. One thing I have learned is not to hand a holster to a novice that is not aware of it's fragile condition. Invariably they will look it over like a purse inspector at a factory, opening and closing it, turning it over , prodding and prying,buckling and un-buckling the straps, opening and closing every pouch, in general trying to rip it apart. This is not healthy for 85 year old leather holsters. They must be treated with care if you expect them to stay together. Now to answer Pete's question, Should you repair, restore? I am currently working on a clients Artillery and the loading tool pocket has had the metal closure stud torn out and the top is ripped and mashed. Otherwise the holster is in good shape and I have made him a new set of leathers to go with, stock boot and strap, closure strap etc. Everything to complete this great looking Artillery rig. Now, does one leave the loading tool pouch alone in it's original destroyed condition or replace it? My advice to him was to restore the holster to original specs. I would not want to open up my nice Artillery rig and see a loading tool pouch that looked like crap. A German Sadler would not leave it in that condition and it certainly is not ready for service. This leaves us wondering, when should I repair or when should I leave it alone? I try to leave that up to the client. There are many types of collectors and some want their pieces to look their best, others want them to have some natural wear and tear. It really is a personal preference. Fortunately, I can make many repairs that cannot be detected by the casual observer even if they are looking for a repair. I am not bragging but if enough care is taken and the correct materials are used it blends into the original materials so that it is virtually impossible to detect. One last thing, so much of a decision like this depends on who you can get to repair or restore a holster. I get many a holster in my shop that has been "repaired" at the local saddle shop or shoe repair. They have been stitched on a modern machine, with nylon thread, putting in holes that can never be taken out again , Yes, they are stitched back together but they are not restored in any way, they are essentially destroyed. You must weigh your decision to restore a holster on what is going to happen to it once you hand it off to someone. You must have trust and confidence that the job will be done right. If you do not have that confidence I would hope you leave it alone.These are precious historical artifacts that are really only in our care for a short time and are disapearing at a rapid rate. We must be wise in our decisions on how to take care of them for future generations of collectors as well as protecting the investment you have in them. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

08-02-2003, 01:53 AM	#6
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Thanks Wes and Jerry for your time in replying. Here is the holster in question and the 1st. photo shows the "missing" thread stitching... I still am debating whether to have this repaired or not... Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

08-02-2003, 02:31 AM	#7
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Pete, That's a lovely holster. Send it to Jerry Burney for a little TLC and it will be even better. Tom A. Who got two pieces of Jerry's work today and is super pleased!